Thursday, December 29, 2011

Structural Inequality? New Study Claims Black People in Detroit Can't Sustain Infrastructure Left Behind by White Flight

Black people in Detroit can't be expected to maintain its infrastructure, study finds
Climate Change, courtesy of the Black Undertow. The Visible Black Hand governing economics (this is why majority Black cities and counties can't sustain a local economy, save Check Cashing, Pawn Shops, Liquor Stores, Fast Food joints, and Hair Salon/Barbershops) that Adam Smith could never have foreseen.

There are those who would blame white people for every problem in this nation. Even white flight itself. White flight is just a natural defensive mechanism to escape the Black Undertow and the crime, property value drop, dereliction of infrastructure, and the decimation of the business district that follows this group.

In the coming weeks, Detroit will be taken over by the state of Michigan. Even though white people built a world-class city, full of architectural marvels that rivaled those found anywhere else on the planet, the Black people who inherited Detroit after the calamitous race war of 1967 (and the subsequent white abandonment of the city) have been unable to maintain a modicum of what they were unceremoniously bequeathed. The Los Angeles Times bashed white people for the failure of the city, when it was white people ingenuity that was responsible for the greatness of Detroit in the first place.

2011 Detroit is a direct representation of its majority population, which happens to be 82 percent Black. The ruins of the city, neglected and rotting monuments courtesy of a people who then rebuilt what they abandoned in the white suburbs surrounding Detroit, are to the Black inhabitants of the town what those strange heads on Easter Island where to the Europeans who first encountered them.

Your average Black inhabitant of Detroit has no understanding for how these architectural marvels were ever erected, nor could they - if trained by the top mechanical, industrial, electrical engineers and architects - ever hope to reproduce them. They can't even sustain them.

The haunting pictures of the empty Michigan Central Station; the staggering details on the facade of the Metropolitan Building still apparent despite the graffiti and trash found on the inside; Lee Plaza, once home to the elite of Detroit, now home to the elite of homeless Detroit; the Grand Army of the Republic Building, a castle erected in 1900 for veterans of the Civil War, now sits boarded up to keep out the descendants of Black people whose freedom has failed Detroit; the Broderick Tower, built in 1927, is the tallest skyscraper in America that has been deserted.

Like the post-apocalyptic world found in the book The Earth Abides, the Black people in Detroit show precious little concern for sustaining any of the city's former marvels. They find it hard to believe that people actually built them. Like the Sphinx in Egypt, Black people in Detroit sit in wonderment, gazing at some of the aesthetically - unequaled in the world for their majesty, even in their depressing state - magnificent buildings and wonder what they were once used for. Why were they even built?

It wouldn't be so bad if Detroit was the only city in America like this, but any city or county that the Black Undertow overwhelms inevitable fails.

In the south, you have Birmingham (72 percent Black), which was once one of the world's great cities. It has been rebuilt in the white suburbs surrounding the city. With Vulcan looking on, the Black Undertow which inherited Birmingham has decimated the hopes and dreams of the city founders and helped lead to the bankruptcy of Jefferson County. Mind you, it's the largest municipal bankruptcy in American history.

Well, two researchers at Michigan State just published a study that blames, you guessed it, white flight for the demoralizing results of the Black Undertow's leadership over cities and counties they inherit. In ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEWS & CASE STUDIES: More Cost per Drop: Water Rates, Structural Inequality, and Race in the United States—The Case of Michigan (published in the Cambridge Journal) we learn that white people will always shoulder the blame for the problems befalling Black people:
White flight from urban centers often means minority residents are left to pay to maintain aging water and sewer systems, a new study finds.

This “structural inequality” is not necessarily a product of racism, but does mean that racial minorities pay systematically more than white people for basic municipal services.

“This study demonstrates a disturbing racial effect to the cost of basic services,” says Stephen Gasteyer, assistant professor of sociology at Michigan State University. “People of color have the fewest opportunities to leave urban centers and are left to pay for the crumbling legacy of a bygone economic era.”


For the study, reported in the journal Environmental Practice, researchers analyzed Census data on self-reported water and sewer costs in Michigan and found that urban residents actually pay more than rural residents, a finding that refutes conventional wisdom.
Perhaps more importantly, water and sewer services cost more in areas with greater proportions of racial minorities.
Detroit is the “poster child” for this problem, Gasteyer says. The city has lost more than 60 percent of its population since 1950, and the water and sewer infrastructure is as much as a century old in some areas. Billions of gallons of water are lost through leaks in the aging lines every year, and the entire system has been under federal oversight since 1977 for wastewater violations.
“A fair proportion of Detroit’s large low-income population cannot afford the burden of rate increases meant to offset infrastructure repairs, leading to tens of thousands of customers getting their water turned off every year,” Gasteyer says.
Water and sewer lines are aging throughout the country. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, hundreds of billions of dollars will be needed to repair deteriorating systems over the next 20 years.
Paying for those upgrades likely will be a major issue in shrinking cities such as Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Birmingham, Ala., Gasteyer says.
“Everything is wearing out, and we are going to have to grapple with how we pay for these so-called liquid assets that need to be upgraded. At the same time, we need to be cognizant of who may be paying an unsustainable burden as those rates go up.”
Wow. What an amazing study! By the way, Pittsburgh has been rated the nicest place in America to live. It's not shrinking. Detroit and the other cities Gasteyer mentioned are, but not Pittsburgh.

Structural inequality? This is getting pretty embarrassing, considering that the most impressive structure your average Black person could erect comes in a Lego box with a "for children six or under" sticker on it. White people have abandoned world class cities across this nation to the Black Undertow. Inevitably, Black people lack the ability to sustain the infrastructure they are handed over in the transition of power.

Why can't the Black engineers just fix these water pipes? Why can't the elected officials set aside money to pay outside engineering firms to do this? Oh, because Black people can't sustain an economy to raise revenue to pay for upgrades to public utilities.

However, it is this line that smells fishy:
“This study demonstrates a disturbing racial effect to the cost of basic services,” says Stephen Gasteyer, assistant professor of sociology at Michigan State University. “People of color have the fewest opportunities to leave urban centers and are left to pay for the crumbling legacy of a bygone economic era.”

Gasteyer obviously hasn't looked at what happened when white people left Africa, specifically the Congo, or what happened to Rhodesia after the capitulation to Actual Black Run Zimbabwe (ABRZ) or in South Africa. Black people can't sustain the basic services that white people created worldwide. White people (and even Black people in Detroit) flee the Black Undertow in the Motor City because of the crumbling effect that Black people have on the the urban center.

People of Color (PoC) in urban centers can only go so far as public transportation will take them, hence the decision by city leaders in Whitopia's to keep out bus systems and light-rail into their towns.

Black people can't sustain a city swimming pool, let alone plan to maintain a city's infrastructure that they have no part in building nor paying for. So those members of the Black Undertow shouldn't be forced to pay for their basic services either:
“These people are going to end up rioting about this,” says Sheila Tyson, a community activist in Jefferson County, Ala. “If they let this stuff happen they are going to get the biggest riot the South has ever seen . . . I can see it coming.”


That’s a pretty serious prediction. What could possibly start a riot that big?


She’s talking about the likelihood of Jefferson County increasing its water and sewage bill rates.


Oh. Is it really all that bad?


“If the sewer bill gets higher, my light might get cut off and if I try to catch up the light, my water might get cut off. So we’re in between. We can’t make it like this,” says Tammy Lucas, a Birmingham resident who has been affected by a “financial and political scandal that has brought one of the most deprived communities in America’s south to the point of what some local people believe is collapse,” reports the BBC.


Lucas’ monthly water and sewage rate has managed to quadruple in the past 15 years. Currently, her bill is $150 a month, which she pays for by using her $600 social security check.

When a federal judge forced Jefferson County to upgrade its outdated sewer system, officials decided to finance the project with bonds.
“Outside advisers suggested a series of complex deals with variable-rate interest . . . Loan payments rose quickly because of increasing interest rates as global credit markets struggled, and the county could no longer afford its payments,” Bloomberg reports. That’s why Jefferson County residents have seen a 329 percent increase in their rates over the past decade and a half–the county has been trying to finance these new facilities.

The sewage system was supposed to cost $300 million. However, since the project started in 1996, the costs have risen to $3.1 billion after various problems and a series of bond and derivatives deals fell through in 2008.

"This is not even a race issue, if I’m telling the truth,” said Tyson. “It‘s just so happens that it’s affecting black people. It’s a class issue. They don’t give a doo-doo about poor people period.”
So what does the “community activist” think should be done to fix the problem?

“Somebody from Washington D.C. needs to come down here and take these sewer bills to where they are affordable for the people in these districts. Injustice – that’s all this is. They need to come down here and fix it,” Tyson said.
 Riots? Black people already riot in Birmingham. It's a well-known fact that tens of thousands of Black people in Fulton County (home to Atlanta) never had to pay their water bills. They never have their water turned off either and rack up thousands of dollars in unpaid bills that the Black political elite never have these model citizens pay.

And why should they, when the cost can be redistributed to the white taxpayers in Buckhead and other white enclaves through higher property taxes?

166 comments:

kev said...

Blogowner:

'calamitous race war '..
Can you edit to 'Black Riot the media called 'race' riots'?

Anonymous said...

You are writing absolute truth on this one. Blacks in general lack any sense or notion of altruism, this why the infrastructure/finances are in the shape it is in with these majority black and failing places.

If they cannot benefit directly from it existing, they really see no need in it existing. Simple yet succinct. (they are not capable!)

It's really sad to see such grand and old architecture crumbling. Detroit is a harbinger of things to come unless we change course in this country. We must change it now!

Zenster said...

“People of color have the fewest opportunities to leave urban centers and are left to pay for the crumbling legacy of a bygone economic era.”

They say that like it's a bad thing.

This is what happens when the builders of a city are rewarded for their troubles with raped daughters, murdered sons and robbed homes. Go figure.

“A fair proportion of Detroit’s large low-income population cannot afford the burden of rate increases meant to offset infrastructure repairs, leading to tens of thousands of customers getting their water turned off every year,” Gasteyer says.

Well then, maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't have chased off all of those productive people who knew how to maintain a city.

Gosh, maintainin' infrastructure be hard!

Gasteyer obviously hasn't looked at what happened when white people left Africa, specifically the Congo, or what happened to Rhodesia after the capitulation to Actual Black Run Zimbabwe (ABRZ) or in South Africa.

This is important to remember because of how, unlike with decimated Detroit, the Whites who departed Africa left behind largely intact and operative infrastructure. And Blacks still ran it into the ground.

“These people are going to end up rioting about this,” says Sheila Tyson, a community activist in Jefferson County, Ala. “If they let this stuff happen they are going to get the biggest riot the South has ever seen . . . I can see it coming.”

Effing priceless. Go ahead, riot and destroy even more infrastructure. Make sure that they remember to put out all the fires with gasoline.

The sewage system was supposed to cost $300 million. However, since the project started in 1996, the costs have risen to $3.1 billion after various problems and a series of bond and derivatives deals fell through in 2008.

Wait just one minute. From $300 million to $3.1 BILLION? That's THREE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE or a one thousand times increase in only 15 years. This represents a ballooning OF COSTS that inflation alone cannot possibly explain. Which leaves only one other possibility:

CORRUPTION.

I'll be happy to have someone prove me wrong.

They need to come down here and fix it,” Tyson said.

As her sense of entitlement began to flare up something fierce.

Anonymous said...

We'll fix Detroit and Birmingham...but they can never, EVER come back. If only! Funny, isn't it, that when their rates rise others must solve their problems or pay their bills or else there will be trouble. When whites are hit with high taxes and soaring property and school taxes, we have to shut up and pay. Maybe my electric bill (NYC) is so high because people in public housing don't have to pay for their electricity. They can be cool all summer long, day and night for free. This past summer that must have been at least a $175 a month freebie. And that's on the VERY low end. I paid a lot more. Another great one, Paul.

whitemaleheteropig said...

OF COURSE all the black's problems are caused by white flight! They dun got nobody left to rob or sell dope to exceptin' each other! Aint no money in dat!
I gots to go steal me a new pair of Air Jordans now. Talk at you honkeys later!

Anonymous said...

It's even worse than you think. In five or ten years, we'll have multiple Detroit type cities. The list will be Detroit, Philly, Atlanta, maybe Boston. It'll be interesting.

Ryu said...

This experiment has been performed already.

Africa was de-colonized in the 60s. Now, places like the Congo or Zimbabwe need whites to come back. But except for the DWLs, we aren't going back.

Even if Detroit becomes 100% white, like Haiti, they will still find ways to blame their troubles on whites.

EYE OF HORUS said...

Why sugar coat it? These "people" and I use the term loosely will probably ALL be Extinct by the End of the 21st Century. The Chinese and Hispanics will not give one penny, or whatever money replaces the Dollar after the Fall of the USA, to support these cretins, and without massive payouts of welfare these horrible things that destroyed America will finally go the way of the Dinosaurs!

Anonymous said...

LOL. They take over and elect into office corrupt/incompetent officials and now wonder why everything others built before them is falling apart. Here is a clue by four. It takes regular maintenance to keep the infrastructure running. Let leaks develop in the water lines and sewer lines and do nothing about them it will cost much more to repair than if they had been taken care of properly.

Citizens of Detroit and Birmingham you elected people to run your cities. That they did while looting the city treasuries. You have no one else to blame. Whites left your cities in fear for their lives and property. You drove them away.

Lily White said...

The BRA cheerleaders' cognitive dissonance must be driving them nuts. On the one hand, they're giddily rubbing their hands together and salivating for the day when the white race is gone. On the other hand, they're pointing at places like Detroit and caterwauling, "These cities are all run-down and unlivable because the big bad racist white people left!" Which is it, guys? Do you want us gone, or do you want us around to sustain these places?

rjp said...

Zenster

This page does an adequate job of explaining what happened inn Jefferson County with the Sewer Debt:

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-16/jefferson-county-alabama-s-path-from-scandal-to-debt-settlement-timeline?category=%2F

Here's a pretty clear definition of "interest rate swap": An exchange of interest payments on a specific principal amount. This is a counterparty agreement, and so can be standardized to the requirements of the parties involved. An interest rate swap usually involves just two parties, but occasionally involves more. Often, an interest rate swap involves exchanging a fixed amount per payment period for a payment that is not fixed (the floating side of the swap would usually be linked to another interest rate, often the LIBOR). In an interest rate swap, the principal amount is never exchanged, it is just a notional principal amount. Also, on a payment date, it is normally the case that only the difference between the two payment amounts is turned over to the party that is entitled to it, as opposed to exchanging the full interest amounts. Thus, an interest rate swap usually involves very little cash outlay.

It is essentially betting on interest rate changes. Not necessarily a bad thing if you don't keep adding losses to the principal (in this an multiple other ways).

Californian said...

This is what I find so disturbing: that maybe the race realists are right. That maybe when you remove white people from the equation, you get the collapse of cities. And the people who take over those cities have not a clue on how to maintain them. So the cities descend into corruption and chaos and dysfunction. I see that parts of Detroit are now sinking back into the primeval forest. And what is so disturbing is that this trend could mean a rollback of civilization as white people withdraw from those areas they used to control.

I've seen this first hand in Africa, the difference between (white run) Rhodesia and (black run) Zimbabwe. And judging from online reports, South Africa is on the same downward slide. It just may be that other civilizations will move into the vacuum, perhaps the Chinese bringing some order to Africa as some speculate.

It appears that DWLs refuse to recognize these realities. This is why they must turn up the volume on their noise machines, repeating the same old slogans and cranking out more television and film portraying middle class blacks. Anything to disguise the reality. It's a sort of DWL form of the American Indian Ghost Dancing, going through rituals to stave off the recognition of inevitable decline as a people.

Yet the odd thing is, it does not have to be this way. Whites (and other civilized peoples) have the numbers and the technology to take back the cities tomorrow. But the elites refuse to break free of the ideological Matrix into which they have jacked.

Anonymous said...

Detroit was the Silicon Valley of its time. It's Wikipedia entry says that at one point Detroit was considered the Paris of the West: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit

What changed?

Anonymous said...

"“It‘s just so happens that it’s affecting black people. It’s a class issue. They don’t give a doo-doo about poor people period.”

In response to a Black female epidemiologist at a Chicago Public Library, I heard Rebecca Skloots say the same thing about "class" vis-a-vis her book "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks."

Black woman Henrietta Lacks contribution to science were her immortal cancer cells. White and asian scientists were given these cells to use as a biological laboratory. They are the ones that do the work that make the HeLa cells of value.

Yet Blacks think the HeLa cells were stolen from their race and that whitey in the form of drug companies ought to compensate the Lacks family for them!

Anonymous said...

How can the morons in Detroit riot?

There ain't nothing left to burn down or loot.

And they are too goddamn poor to leave the city.

They will rot in place.

Zimbabwe here we come.

Anonymous said...

In africa, there is no written language or recorded history.

AmericanGoy said...

Off topic but this is totally spot on and Dave Chappelle is the man:

http://www.metatube.com/en/videos/8253/Dave-Chapelle-Mad-Real-World/

What happens when a naive SWPL doofus moves in with some brothas and sistas?

Kylie said...

"In africa, there is no written language or recorded history."

That's because whites stole them.

Zenster said...

rjp: This page does an adequate job of explaining what happened inn Jefferson County with the Sewer Debt:

Thank you for the link. The derivatives agreement stinks of way too much financial wiggle room.

Adding to the county’s challenges were a sewer project marred by public corruption and political pressure to restrain rising sewer bills.

Interesting how corruption is mentioned ahead of anything else in the very first paragraph.

She estimated it raised the county’s expense by some $1.2 million a year, creating alarm about cronyism, excessive fees and fraud.

“I had proposed a competitive sale but was outvoted by my colleagues who wanted to dispense political patronage,” she said.


Nor did it help that JP Morgan's local mouthpiece, Charles LeCroy, was involved in influence peddling.

When a colleague objected that “randomly paying off people that have nothing to do with the deal just doesn’t sit well,” he [LeCroy] replied: “That’s the deal -- that’s just the price of doing business,” according to SEC records.

From links within the article:

The financing -- which converted floating-rate debt into fixed-rate bonds, and then used the derivative to essentially change it back to a variable rate -- left it with a higher interest cost than when it began, she said. She estimated it raised the county’s expense by more than $1 million a year, and raised concern that the arrangement involved cronyism, patronage, excessive fees and fraud. [ emphasis added]

To me, this is the biggie:

October 2002-December 2003: JPMorgan serves as lead banker on the financings at the center of the county’s collapse. Before the transactions, more than 95 percent of the sewer bonds were traditional fixed-rate securities.

By the end of it, 93 percent carried interest rates that fluctuated along with the market, including $2.1 billion of so- called auction-rate securities.
[emphasis added]

Neither was it of much good that JP Morgan got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

April 2007: Porter, White & Co., a financial adviser brought in to analyze the swaps, estimates that the $120 million in swap fees it was charged were as much as $100 million more than warranted.

Why the overcharges?

JPMorgan overcharged the county on the swaps to cover the cost of more than $8 million in secret payments made to friends of county commissioners who worked for local companies, a step to secure JPMorgan’s lead role, according to the SEC.

Clearly, the housing crash forced into issue some rather fragile aspects of the debt swap agreement. However, enough palms were being greased to the point where no one could get any sort of grip on things when they started to slide downhill.

Between the cupidity of JP Morgan and the Jefferson County pols, everyone in Birmingham will have their tit in the Bendix for some time. SEC rollbacks notwithstanding.

Zenster said...

["In africa, there is no written language or recorded history."]

Kylie: That's because whites stole them.

And thus were the Africans prevented from trying anew to originate any other sort of written language, ever again.

Anonymous said...

Lucas’ monthly water and sewage rate has managed to quadruple in the past 15 years. Currently, her bill is $150 a month, which she pays for by using her $600 social security check.

Damn if that is true, that is steep. I think we pay around $38 per month for water/sewage.

Wait just one minute. From $300 million to $3.1 BILLION? That's THREE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE or a one thousand times increase in only 15 years.

Zenster, that is an increase of 10 times, one order of magnitude. The percent increase is 1000 Percent (ballpark). It is not an increase of 1000 times. Though it is still outrageous.

Playing Roots Backwards said...

I agree 100% with Sheila Tyson. Somebody from Washington D.C. needs to do something to lower the sewer and water bills in our dysfunctional cities.

I would suggest that they send a team of Black government engineers to Trenchtown in Kingston Jamaica to study the ingenious and inexpensive sewer and water systems that those clever Blacks put together with minimal White assistance.

All that Detroit, Birmingham and other predominately Black metropolises need is one system of shallow ditches that carries the black and gray water to the river, and one system of shallow ditches that carries the fresh water from the river.

Hand out some used paint pails and the problem is solved.

Why do us Crackers always have to make everything so damn complicated.

Anonymous said...

The late Professor Glayde Whitney once wrote that "Black populations are simply incapable of maintaining a European level of civilization" How true!

Anonymous said...

Keep up the white flight, empty out the major metropolitan cities and leave the blacks behind to destroy it and kill each other off. Don't go into those areas and give them your money. Sooner or later the media will have no choice but to report on it and state once and for all who is to blame: BLACK RUN AMERICA.

Prof. Woland said...

One big reason blacks cannot escape the undertow they create is that their BRA jobs and benefits stay with the city, county, government agency or business that hired them in the first place. This is even truer for the black “middle class” that cannot hope to get rehired somewhere else much less in the same position and for the same pay. Most of these people were promoted well beyond their ability for legal and political reasons but have no real marketable skills. Even the black “elite” has nothing to really offer. When things go bad they will just end up like the other poor ghetto rats in Detroit, Birmingham or Newark.

Anonymous said...

Paul

Indiana's paper of record (Indianapolis Star) on the frontpage today [12/29i/2011] had the byline "Teenagers swarm city streets after Circle Centre closes."

No mention in the article that these youth are black. The papper had a raw video feed and as I suspected-it was a "mahogany" mob.

Circle Center is a major business hub in Indy and is connected tgo the Convention Center and Lucas Stadium (Colts).

Read the article and you can sense the unesainess businesses have over the "youth" congregatiung there. The crowds are become 300 plus on the weekends. Just a (inseert appropriate woird or phrase here) waiting to happen.

Just a matter-of-time before Climate Change sets in! Good Bye Center City!


http://www.indystar.com/article/20111229/LOCAL18/112290390/Teenagers-swarm-city-streets-after-Circle-Centre-closes?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

fRED

rjp said...

This is f'ing classic:

Zenster said...
["In africa, there is no written language or recorded history."]

Kylie: That's because whites stole them.

And thus were the Africans prevented from trying anew to originate any other sort of written language, ever again.


White people stole their history. I am LMFAO probably going to fall off my chair from it. Maybe I should sue blacks for my falling off my chair laughing at their behavior.

Anonymous said...

There are blacks with high IQs and abilities. But there aren't enough to build and maintain stable societies. Of the 306 million in America about 45 million are black. If you would snap your fingers and just have those 45 million inhabit the USA, they would not be able to succeed. There are just not enough average, above average and superlative people among them to maintain roads, infrastructure, health care, factories, farms, the government, etc.

They would also be pulled down by the high criminality and dysfunction of the black underclass. People often say in response to reports of black criminality, that 99% of blacks are good folks. Well if 1/4th of black men will be jailed during their lifetime, then without even considering the criminality of black women, about 1/8th (12.5%) of the population will have to be locked up during some point in their life. That means at most 87% of blacks are good folks.

Now 12% is definitely not a majority. So the majority of black folks are law abiding. But for a society to need to lock up 12% of its population is DEVASTING. That is why a nation composed mainly of blacks will never thrive.

To thrive you need a few superlative individuals to come up with innovations and you need a lot of above average people to put those ideas into practical use. Think of an innovater who develops a new product. The inventor will need highly skilled people to build and run the factory, to market and distribute the product and they will need a reliable pool of diligent, trained workers to produce it.

Even when a black country produces an intellectual giant, there are not enough of these others to put into use what that individual might develop. Add to this the negative effect of the black underclass and that society will never be able to get off the ground in any real sense.

It's sad because there are capable black folks. But they are only going to thrive and live up to their potential in European societies.

What's the solution? Acknowledge that our nations need to maintain a certain percentage of European, or Northeast Asian for that matter, population. Stop importing the third world into Europe, N.A. and Australia. Those coming here to get the good life are coming in too large of numbers and are threatening to turn our societies into copies of the ones they left.

Instead, promote immigration to the third world. China has a surplus population and could send millions around the world to bring diversity to Africa and Latin America. They would invigorate those nations and add to their human capital.

White liberals would be free to emigrate to the third world too. They would do more good there and less harm here.

Anonymous said...

The same thing happened to gary indiana. Once a beautiful city when it was white run, when the blacks(africrap americans) moved in the whites left and the blacks completely destroyed the city.Go to gary now ,you may as well be in some 3rd world african country.Lets face it blacks are just not into civilization,they just dont get it.Africa is the best example of this ,when it was run by europeans they were very productive , when they became independent countries, they went instantly into a tale spin.The solution to africa is obvious-go back to colonial rule.Anybody ,even a bunch of drunken high school kids can run africa better than africans can.As far as american the solution is not so simple,other than isolate the blacks and hopefully theyll just kill themselves off.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (December 29, 2011 7:55 PM): The percent increase is 1000 Percent (ballpark). It is not an increase of 1000 times. Though it is still outrageous.

Thank you for the clarification. 1,000% sort of unhinged me for a moment there.

Still going from 95 percent of the sewer bonds being traditional fixed-rate securities over to 93 percent carrying interest rates that fluctuated along with the market seems like a surefire recipe for disaster.

I'm obliged to wonder if those fixed-rate securities would have been quite so sensitive to the housing crash due to how it was the subsequent downgrading of Jefferson County's debt which forced fund managers to auction their variable rate bonds off on very unfavorable terms.

Zenster said...

Playing Roots Backwards: All that Detroit, Birmingham and other predominately Black metropolises need is one system of shallow ditches that carries the black and gray water to the river, and one system of shallow ditches that carries the fresh water from the river.

That scheme only works if someone is smart enough to place the intake ditch well upstream from the outtake.

Also, other cities further downstream might get a bit agitated about such a contrivance.

Zenster said...

Prof. Woland: One big reason blacks cannot escape the undertow they create is that their BRA jobs and benefits stay with the city, county, government agency or business that hired them in the first place.

Outstanding point (and great overall comment!), and one that highlights the wages of sin for depending upon Big Government.

Cap'n Crunch said...

Maybe Boston....no. Its the bubbling cauldron right now. The lines have been drawn long ago, and everyone in the city knows it. Boston will join the ranks of Nawlins, atlanta and birmingham. matter of weeks, if not months. One only has to drive throgh the cities of chelsea, lowell or lawrence, Mass to see that these cities were built with pride and caring residents who are now all dead or gone due to crime and occupation of the darkies. God help us.

make it rain TRUTH said...

The level of corruption, cronyism, payoffs, and bribery in the Jefferson County scam, the "price of doing business";

Is exactly, and I mean exactly, the way things are run in African countries. Whites that travel there (journalist types mostly that HAVE to, since no other sane white would do such a thing), know the game. They routinely carry bribery money to get around because it's every. single. turn. you face corrupt officials charging you phony "fees" that go right in their pockets.

The corruption is so endemic as civilization barely exists in the metro areas. And it truly doesn't exist as anything more than literally savages AWAY from those metro areas. I'm talking native American level of ZERO civilization (as we Westerners know it). Or as stated here, there is no written records of any history there because savages don't know how to write, and even if they did they don't have time for such frivolity when having to fight for survival daily subsisting on grass, maggots, and dirt.

Western Civ is what has given us the leisure to have the beauty of a Detroit (formerly, before it was left to savages.)

It's absolutely stunning. The entire REALITY of it. You'd think this sort of thing would be a hot topic across academia, or even at your watercooler. But it's verboten to discuss because it might require a good, hard look at why this nonsense (is there a better word??) is continuing unabated while people are more worried about "offending someone's feelings" than they are worried about yet another young white girl getting her face caved in during a riot or some older white dude being dragged off his bicycle and beaten into a seizure.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (December 29, 2011 8:45 PM): Instead, promote immigration to the third world. China has a surplus population and could send millions around the world to bring diversity to Africa and Latin America. They would invigorate those nations and add to their human capital.

Are you seriously advocating Chinese colonization of the Third World? What do you think the ramifications are from China's appropriation of just a tiny nation like Tibet?

You know, Tibet, that nosebleed rock strewn little no-account place that just happens to contain the headwaters of 26 of Asia's biggest rivers, including the Mekong, Yangtze and Brahmaputra.

Just wait and see the global mayhem which will be caused by that one little acquisition of China.

Now, do you really want the Chinese controlling, let's say, the Congo River, or South Africa's gold mines, or the rich uranium deposits found in sub-Saharan Africa? Remember, the earth's uranium reserves contain more un-liberated energy than all of the coal, oil and natural gas deposits combined.

So, what was that about China, again?

Baldowl said...

Make It Rain Truth, the better word is madness.

Anonymous said...

Another reason to rent instead of owning property.

When the jobs go away and the neighborhood goes to ruin, one can simply move to a new whitopia without the headache of paying for a new house while trying to unload a house that has lost its value due to lowered property values thanks to the Black Undertow.

Anonymous said...

Now, do you really want the Chinese controlling, let's say, the Congo River, or South Africa's gold mines, or the rich uranium deposits found in sub-Saharan Africa? Remember, the earth's uranium reserves contain more un-liberated energy than all of the coal, oil and natural gas deposits combined.

Well if Europeans were reproducing and had surplus populations, then I'd choose sending Euros like we did in Rhodesia and other places. But there is not enough to go around.

I don't fear the Chinese. They have the surplus population and I'd rather have them move to the third world than have the third world move to Euro nations.

The hellholes in Africa and Latin America do not border China like Tibet so I don't fear China incorporating them. Further, Chinese immigration numbers would not dominate any one nation or region.

For example, Haiti has 10 million people. If you were to add half a million to a million Chinese, they would not own the country but they would improve the local human capital. Maybe industries could develop and the black undertow in Haiti could remain in place.

Mexico has 110 million. 10 million Chinese would come nowhere close to controlling the Mexican state. But they probably would invigorate the Mexican economy and might help provide more opportunity to keep Mexicans home.

Pick your high IQ immigrants if you wish. Choose high IQ Indians, though I doubt India has that many to spare. Pick the Jews, though their numbers are too small to make great impact. Pick DWLs, I'd support folks like Sean Penn and Brad Pitt moving to the places they promote on camera.

The bottom line is the third world is growing and cannot take care of itself. We know Europeans will never just turn their back and let these folks starve. So short of allowing them into our lands, we need to help ensure they can develop their own. We know they CANNOT do this on their own. So send in people who can help create stable societies. Europeans are shrinking in population. Japanese and Koreas, both highly capable are shrinking too. So that leaves the Chinese and Indians.

Anonymous said...

You're giving negroes too much intellectual credit, Paul. They don't "stare in awe and wonderment" (or whatever) at the structures whites built. They just use them, and take what they can from them. Same as with a Circle K, or a banana tree.

It's a process; it takes time to really internalize just how stunningly dumb blacks really are.

Anonymous said...

Ultimately, perhaps, when we all have been forced to come clean about blacks' actual performance and behavior in the U.S., whites will end up looking after blacks once again-- with the critical difference that expectations will be reset to zero.

For this to happen liberalism must crash and burn.

Anonymous said...

Re: Chinese in Africa or anywhere else, agreed with Zenster. This article provides excellent insight into their avaricious soulless ways when it comes to extracting resources and dealing with owners of resources (Africa in this case):

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/126/special-report-china-in-africa.html

The Chinese, like the Arabs, are successful as amoral merchants, but what they both lack is what Europeans had: altruism and compassion combined with a zeal to build something better. The Chinese are too selfish by nature to be global leaders-- to fill this role you must be respected and liked. The U.S. has done this historically, until the advent of rabid liberalism. China as a projected power doesn't give two shits about anyone.

Kylie said...

"'["In africa, there is no written language or recorded history."]

Kylie: That's because whites stole them.'

And thus were the Africans prevented from trying anew to originate any other sort of written language, ever again."


Well, they were pretty busy building the pyramids, laying the foundations for all the civilization that the Greeks and Romans stole, inventing mathematics, taming the dung beetle, etc.

Laz said...

@ Zenster:

I loathe to admit it but, China would have absolutely no problem putting down trouble makers. History is my proof.

I would in no way shape or form want Chinese rule but, they do make a point of China being the lesser of two evils.

Chinese draconian rule VS total BRA and the extinction/enslavement of the white American

Discard said...

I'm with you, Zenster, on Chinese colonization of Africa. I am an unrepentant imperialist with regards to the Dark Continent. Some civilized race will make use of it, and it might as well be us. Seize it, use the resources that the Blacks have no capacity to develop, and let them live as they always have. Do not exploit them. They are merely part of the local fauna, leave them be as we would foxes or raccoons.

genericprofile9000 said...

A better question : does anyone care what happens to the "Urbans" at this point?

Anonymous said...

"It appears that DWLs refuse to recognize these realities. This is why they must turn up the volume on their noise machines, repeating the same old slogans and cranking out more television and film portraying middle class blacks. Anything to disguise the reality."

Ive noticed this too. Especially in television commercials where blacks are portrayed as smart, civil and getting along with whites.
Then I step out into the real world and see a the inverse of what is portrayed on television.

The Wobbly Guy said...

@Zenster,

I'm chinese (in ethnicity though not nationality). I like the idea. *grin*

On a more serious note, I suspect the PLA has plans for the slow but inexorable ethnic cleansing of Africa... but what form it will take, we will just have to wait to find out.

Vincent said...

Africans cannot sustain the civilizations White people build. Talk about the obvious!

All one need do is look at the civilizations Africans have created on their own without any Western influence. We're talkin' stone age here. Primate-level hut builders. Electricity? HAHAHA, uh, no.

They. Ain't. Like. Us.

Only with massive media deception can they be made to appear similar to us.

Anonymous said...

Add East Saint Louis to the list. A very nice town until the race wars of the late 1960's.
Thank you for this site! You have defined cogent ideas that I have been ruminating about for years.

Anonymous said...

Old-line SEC fan here. I used to tell a colege professor of my acquaintance that Detroit was a prime example of what happens when a place becomes majority black. It sinks into crime, corruption, and third world status.

His answer? "Whites are also corrupt."

~AV~ said...

...did anyone catch Rush Limbaugh on Greta last night?

was interesting, that he specificaaly addressed the bankruptcy of Detroit...except he kept hammering that is was the "Liberal politician" that led to the decline and destruction of Detroit...

THERE I was yelling at the TV...

NO NO NO! It was BRA...then the liberals!

It wasn't the liberal politicians, they were a small part of it...it was the feral BLACKS, who were used as the pawns of the liberal...and now all that is left...is WORST than a "black liberals" or "liberal politician"...

It's the "Gimme Dat Black Feral Trash"....

I wish Rush would climb out of his life of "playing it safe" and go right to the meat of the matter...HOWEVER...he was the first to say, that the election Of BARACK ( <-- insert she-boon booming voice there)would lead to the deterioration of race relations...

So he may have "one eye, tied behind his back" that doesn't yet see the whole picture...or is too chicken to say what he knows to be true...

Anonymous said...

Zenster said...

["In africa, there is no written language or recorded history."]

Kylie: That's because whites stole them.

And thus were the Africans prevented from trying anew to originate any other sort of written language, ever again.


They dun stole the ability to do so!

Stuff Black People Don't Like said...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/12/rush-limbaugh-the-problem-with-detroit-is-liberalism-its-the-one-constant-in-the-last-50-years/

Rush is wrong. All "conservatives" are wrong. Let them know... Blast their sites with links to sbpdl.

FYI- I'm working on a book about Detroit.

Is anyone a good graphic artist out there? If so, please contact me ASAP.

Anonymous said...

"Rush is wrong. All "conservatives" are wrong. Let them know... Blast their sites with links to sbpdl."

Agreed 1000%.

I hate to admit it, but I once echoed this same meme, that "liberalism" is responsible for black failure. Of course, now I know better.

Blacks are responsible for black failure.

To be fair, I do believe that liberalism accelerates the black downward spiral by encouraging irresponsibility, criminality, and the entitlement mentality.

Rush is too big, and stands to lose too much, by joining the ranks of Those Who Can See. Maybe that will change when our numbers are larger.

~AV~ said...

...took care of my business at GatewayPundit...

Mark said...

"Well, they were pretty busy building the pyramids, laying the foundations for all the civilization that the Greeks and Romans stole, inventing mathematics, taming the dung beetle, etc."

Where would we be without tame dung beetles?

~AV~ said...

@ 8:25 Anon...

Rush will join the ranks...

2012...will be the year of

BLACK RIOTS...

Mahogony Mobs assembling quickly via social media = "practice"

Mahogony mobs overwhelming public places with getting away scott free smash and rob = "practice"

Mahogony Mobs violently attacking randoms whites = "practice"

This = "practice".....
is testing the systems, reactions and outcomes...things these savages are testing are things like...

"How does whitie react, does he/she fight back..."

"Is whitie still afraid of us, when we appear as a large group..."

"HOW long does it take for police to react..."

"When the police arrive, what do the police do..."

"After we commit our crimes, does the media still cover it up..."

I am sure I could add to this list...I welcome ANYONE with "Eyes that Can See"...to add...

make it rain TRUTH said...

Mark said...

Where would we be without tame dung beetles?

December 30, 2011 8:51 AM


In a world of shit.

;)

Anonymous said...

~AV~, I believe the answers to your questions are as follows:

1. Whitey will run, unless cornered. He/she will not, as a general rule, fight back. Some small groups will resist, but as a general rule it will be flight, not fight.

2. Yes, Whites are still afraid of large masses of blacks. And rightfully so.

3. The response times will increase with the frequency and violence of these mobs, until it drops off to zero (i.e. no response at all) as the mobs break out the AK's. The cops will be too busy trying to stay alive to respond to your needs of assistance.

4. The cops will either stand by and do nothing unless under actual physical attack (as in the later stages of the Rodney King riots, for example), or will beat a hasty retreat to avoid a hailstorm of gunfire.

5. The media will stay on the scene of various mobs' activities, as riots that show people getting hurt or killed are good television (again, think Reginald Denny of the Rodney King riots - if it bleeds, it leads). They will either then divert to scenes of looters marching in and out of surrendered stores upon orders of their newsroom directors, or be driven off by gunfire directed at their helicopters (as in Hurricane Katrina).

A lot of Those Who Can See advise stocking up on food water, and ammunition. Might I add that emergency medical supplies (along with the training to use them) and fire extinguishers be added to the list? BRA does have a tradition of Devil's Night, and two fire extinguishers per room wherever you are staying might just come in handy.

Paleface 6

Zenster said...

Anonymous (December 30, 2011 8:25 AM): To be fair, I do believe that liberalism accelerates the black downward spiral by encouraging irresponsibility, criminality, and the entitlement mentality.

By all means, let's be "fair" to Liberals and tar their "soft racism" of lowered expectations with every bit of derision and scorn that can be heaped upon it. Especially so if it will ever drop the scales from Black eyes and make them realize just how deadly Liberalism has been for American Blacks all through this nation's history.

I say "all through" because the Classical Liberalism that sought to create legal equality for Blacks is more a hallmark of genuine Conservative thinking than it is a part of actual modern Liberalism.

Rush is too big, and stands to lose too much, by joining the ranks of Those Who Can See. Maybe that will change when our numbers are larger.

Rush is also an Olympic class whiner who routinely comes up short in the solutions department. Limbaugh's insistence that recreational drug users be given prison terms ― only to be caught "doctor shopping" and in possession of several hundred Vicodin tablets ― put the lie to his credibility.

Zenster said...

~AV~: Mahogony Mobs assembling quickly via social media = "practice"

Most excellent post, ~AV~, in every respect.

Even if it is not conscious "practice", these actions constitute "test probes" which intrinsically define the parameters that you cite regarding public reaction, police response time, media coverage and all the other factors that will subliminally frame whatever intentional component there is.

The "knowledge" taken away from such "practice" will definitely be put to "practical" use in the Post-EBT era riots.

Something tells me the police will eventually seek legal sanction for their deployment of broadband cell phone jamming equipment that will be needed to neutralize "flash mob" formation.

GenJackRipper said...

I've always been sadened byt the deserted buildings of Detroit.

Can't we all just build ourselves a new city somewhere in the south where it's warm and move these monuments there?

sst001 said...

PK wrote: Like the Sphinx in Egypt, Black people in Detroit sit in wonderment, gazing at some of the aesthetically - unequaled in the world for their majesty, even in their depressing state - magnificent buildings and wonder what they were once used for. Why were they even built?

LOL - well said sir!

Anonymous said...

China really lacks the demographics to be a colonial power. Africa by contrast will have an exponentially exploding population right until our ability to provide food, water, and energy run dry.

Anonymous said...

"Racism plays a significant role too. "

I am so glad that black racism is finally going to be acknowledged.

"Detroit's white flight exploded in the 1950s and '60"

... carry on then.

"It's significant to note that Detroit's inner-ring suburbs have been picking up African American populations as young Detroit families seek safety, stability and more reliable schools. As they run out of the city, its vast socioeconomic problems become even more distilled, more pronounced."

It is almost like they know exactly what the problem is but don't want to name it.

Don M said...

Anonymous at 0921 wrote:

3. The response times will increase with the frequency and violence of these mobs, until it drops off to zero (i.e. no response at all) as the mobs break out the AK's. The cops will be too busy trying to stay alive to respond to your needs of assistance.

4. The cops will either stand by and do nothing unless under actual physical attack (as in the later stages of the Rodney King riots, for example), or will beat a hasty retreat to avoid a hailstorm of gunfire.


I think what you forgot to mention is that another thing the cops WILL do is interdict any Yankee Tangos they see with firearms or find in their vehicles at checkpoints.

"Illegal Weapon" confiscation quotas will be much easier to meet when they are taken from YTs...

Anonymous said...

"Rush is also an Olympic class whiner who routinely comes up short in the solutions department."

As opposed to...who?
The list of "solutions providers" is very short, perhaps empty.

"Limbaugh's insistence that recreational drug users be given prison terms ― only to be caught "doctor shopping" and in possession of several hundred Vicodin tablets ― put the lie to his credibility."

I've never expected Limbaugh to be free of sin or imperfection, nor do I agree with everything he says or does. However, I appreciate his unique ability to see through the disguise of liberal subterfuge, along with his infectious optimism.

Beowulf said...

~AV~
You give the groids too much credit. They lack the future time orientation to conspire as you suggest. They are simply negroes being negroes. Take a good look at Africa--a difference in degree but not in kind.

You underestimate whites with this myth of Black supremacy. Whites are becoming more aware every day. They have been stocking up on guns, ammo, and supplies for the past four years. The pushback will occur. It is only a matter of time.

Whites only have a little more to lose and they will have nothing to lose. After that, the gloves come off. Most are already FED UP and just waiting for the inevitable.

Marc B said...

"If a similar collapse happened to San Francisco or San Diego or Denver or Dallas, there would be national cries for intervention."

No, we would not. Let Detroit stand as a shining example of what happens when a vast black majority combined with an aggressive welfare system and endemic political corruption looks like. Law abiding and working blacks have had to leave for their safety in the 1990's and 2000's the same way whites have since the 1960's, so stop blaming the victims for acting on their healthy instinct for self-preservation.

This article touches on the issue of "abandonment" without using that new term for white flight. DWL'S view black urban populations as swaddling infants requiring the teat of white milk maidens to provide for them. It's an admission that they view blacks as a parasitic population unable to fend for themselves and live at standards approaching those of whites, so whites are supposed to stick around so they can leach their tax dollars and enjoy their law-abiding company, even if it places whites at all sorts of significant risks.

Beowulf said...

All you defeatists can go ahead and surrender now. You're almost certainly fodder as you've run out of places to run.

Perhaps a better approach would be to encourage others to resist when the time comes. En-courage, you know. The ability to withstand punishment and willingly sacrifice is not a darky trait.

Whine if you must about ennervated whites, but I consider you of their number. No outcome is certain, but I can assure you that many of us may be lost, but many more will go down hard, selling their lives dearly.

Will is paramount.
Victory or death. You choose.

Prof. Woland said...

The melt down of Detroit will be similar to hurricane Katrina only there will be no whitey to blame this time. But don't expect the liberals to not try and use that excuse. To admit the reality of the undertow is so frightening to them that I think some of them would rather put red hot needles in their eyes. It will take a mass movement of tens of millions of people speaking openly before the media, including el Rushbo, will dare to state what is right in front of their very noses.

The more attention Detroit's bankruptcy gathers the more likely this is to happen. I think it is a grave mistake on the part of the left (including this study)to flog this story. Many on the left are trying to support BRA by attacking the attempt by the State of Michigan to impose outside management and are instead chosing to cover this as a civil rights issue. They are put in a position where then need to support the government employee unions and affirmative actions hires that make up the Detroit political-economic establishment. With any luck this will rhetorically blow up in their faces when they try to win the battle but end up losing the war.

Anonymous said...

I have a theory: I think the mass exodus of whites around the world (including the US) from the violence and destruction of the black race will eventually turn the tide. These whites who have the means to move tend to be the brightest and have resources. They will go to whatever peaceful country they can afford - and it will not be Africa, Haiti and soon neither the US - and they will start businesses, finish degrees, run for office, etc.

These whites will influence politics, business and education. Their kids will do the same. In twenty years blacks will be ostracized from every nation on earth except Africa which the world will deport them to gladly. They will be mercilessly kicked out from every country like they are from Libya right now.

Then the world can keep an eye on these overgrown children from a safe distance. Multinationals can still harvest resources from AFrica because they can afford the small army needed to fend off the raping/pillaging/ stupid indigenous life forms. Life forms that could have harvested the resources themselves if they could figure out what a resource was and how to maintain it.

In the US I believe certain states will secede in time due to a massive tax revolt, and the fact that states have the power and the growing will to do so. Those states will enjoy a mass influx of whites. These states will become like Pittsburgh, Iceland, Switzerland, Belgium, etc.

Just a theory.

Don M said...

I hate to have to break it to you "I have a theory", but the Unmentionables will never allow a white sanctuary nation to take root anywhere in the world. It would be strangled in the cradle.

The ground under your feet is all you've got to defend...

Anonymous said...

"but the Unmentionables will never allow a white sanctuary nation to take root anywhere in the world."

I agree.

Anonymous said...

The solution is trident:
1. Industry needs to return to Detroit (and other metro areas) - we can live with smog if we want to save our country....the problem is many of the central city building are now converted into yuppie lofts
2. Eliminate labor unions. Competition will determine wage, not collective bargaining.
3. Niggers are lazy and therefore not profitable. They are subversive by nature and destroy any work environment.

Anonymous said...

FYI: Iceland is now accepting political refugees from Kenya. The world is dead.

Anonymous said...

"[Whites] have been stocking up on guns, ammo, and supplies for the past four years."

OK, great, but we need more than that, and more than medical supplies and fire extinguishers as someone wisely suggested. Anyone can dive into siege mentality and arm themselves and there is no race restriction in this area. What if we throw a war and nobody shows up?

What we really need stocking up on is a vision that can be sold to others, a distinct sense of Europe-based higher civilization. Being able to physically take on an opposing force and its cultural supporters may be a necessary starting point, a sort of psychological break-through, but this will always be seen as extremist by the majority of Americans. This position can also have the opposite effect by allying DWLs with blacks even more closely and defensively. The majority of "regular folks" need to see that it is ok to reject BRA and go on from there. If all we can offer them is an NRA gift subscription we won't get very far.

As far as I can see in reading comments from Those Who Can See, the actual resistance to our decline is the stereotype of Good Ol' Boys ready to rise up and put down any *truly serious* break-out of rampaging blacks. Good to know but not nearly enough bandwidth.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (December 30, 2011 10:40 AM): It is almost like they know exactly what the problem is but don't want to name it.

Almost? ALMOST?!?

Black criminality is the elephant in the room that's impossible to ignore yet no one wants to talk about even though everybody knows it's there.

Harry Baldwin said...

Rush Limbaugh begs to differ! The problem isn't black people, it's liberals! This is from the Daily Caller (whose editors no doubt agree):

Rush Limbaugh says he knows the silver bullet for fixing the hole that we call Detroit, a city that can brag of lots of unemployed and homeless people. And it's not even complicated like Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan. Limbaugh's simple solution? End liberalism. “Get rid of every liberal in government,” Limbaugh said Thursday night on Fox News. “What is the one constant in Detroit, all of these years? Been run by liberals. Liberal ideology. Liberal economics. Liberal belief system."

Anonymous said...

To anonymous: by Unmentionables, I guess you mean the Lutheran groups who are bringing in and settling the Somalis?

Or, maybe you mean the Catholic and LDS (Mormon) agencies that are clamoring for open borders so they can grow their numbers.

Right?

- just wondering

Anonymous said...

"the Unmentionables will never allow a white sanctuary nation to take root anywhere in the world. It would be strangled in the cradle."

I couldn't agree more wholeheartedly. The radicalizing influences unleashed by the Enlightenment will ultimately consume us all. The fate that awaits us is that of Zimbabwe and South Africa - genocide of the white race.

Now, were we not hamstrung by DWLs there would be absolutely no problem. This fifth column in our midst is the real enemy. Their shock troops are the groids who will continue to be unleashed on an unprotected white population.

We are fast approaching, in many of our cities and soon our Western nations, a critical mass of Europeans below which civilization can no longer be sustained. At some point European civilization will rise again like a Phoenix from the ashes, but I am truly afraid that the civilizational disintegration cannot be stopped.

The cult of equality, diversity and multiculturalism are quite simply the most toxic ideologies ever unleashed by man. But it is all derived from the oldest of sins: "thou shall be as god." The deification of man and rejection of God's transcendent truths have unleashed the demons that are now consuming us. And to quote Edmund Burke, they are "incorporeal, pure, unmixed, dephlegmated, defecated evil."

Blacks and whites are not remotely equal. This outrageous notion needs to be rejected out of hand. The subsidizing, feeding and caring for blacks will eventually have to stop altogether. They can only coexist with us as subordinates. Anything else, and it will by necessity degenerate into our current mess.

Jim Crow laws were the most humane compromise available to the South and worked well. These laws were humane for whites AND for blacks. Blacks need to be protected from themselves. Apartheid was good for blacks as well as white South Africans.

Colonialism was the kindest and most altruistic workable approach to sub Sahara Africa and its benefits were legion. Until, and unless, whites begin to act with confidence and vitality we will be destroyed by the dark people of the world.

Ivan Shatov

Silent Running said...

“These people are going to end up rioting about this,” says Sheila Tyson, a community activist in Jefferson County, Ala. “If they let this stuff happen they are going to get the biggest riot the South has ever seen . . . I can see it coming.”

What's important about this statement is the obvious defiance in the old woman's words. She's telling us: "Keep it up, cracker, and see what happens." Though she'd never admit it, she's proud of the black propensity for violence.

We could afford to go easy on rioters and looters when everyone lived fat and comfortable. But those days are nearly at an end. When the middle class collapses and Caucasian unemployment gets into double digits, I doubt we'll be in any mood to handle the Negro with kid gloves. Tyson should be very careful what she wishes for.

What's the solution? Acknowledge that our nations need to maintain a certain percentage of European, or Northeast Asian for that matter, population.

So long as that percentage is >95, so be it.

They routinely carry bribery money to get around because it's every. single. turn. you face corrupt officials charging you phony "fees" that go right in their pockets.

Witness.

Silent Running said...

Where would we be without tame dung beetles?

I would be without my pet dung beetle, whose name is Spike.

All you defeatists can go ahead and surrender now. You're almost certainly fodder as you've run out of places to run.

Outstanding comment by Beowulf.

I hate to have to break it to you "I have a theory", but the Unmentionables will never allow a white sanctuary nation to take root anywhere in the world.

For fuck's sake, didn't Paul recently give you a chance to vent all you liked about your pet obsession? Not good enough, I guess. The Unmentionables are ancient, black-hearted creatures with incredible magical powers, after all.

Anonymous said...

The summary deportation of criminal groids to Liberia or any other sub-Saharan hellhole would serve to eventually rid our nation of this terrible scourge. Don't execute them, just deport them.

The Muzzies present another problem altogether. ANY Muzzie should be deported summarily.

And honestly, I'd like to see the Orientals and Indians go as well. Too much emphasis is placed on intelligence. Frankly, I don't give one damn how intelligent they are or how much they contribute. I'm just sick and tired of non-whites of any stripe.

We've been so imbued with the multicultural disease that it is difficult to conceive of such radical measures, but they will need to be taken.

And when the wars start and the deportations begin I say send the f***ing DWL's with them.

We need to end universal suffrage once and for all. The privileged of voting needs to be earned. The franchise should be severely restricted. We need a revolution in its original Latin meaning - a motion that leads again to a starting point or origin.

As nearly impossible as it seems, these measures and others even more draconian will have to be undertaken. We will need to vigorously defend our nation and its European breed stock.

Happy New Year, all!

Ivan Shatov

SwampThizzle said...

The days of "Whitey Pays" are rapidly coming to an end. In the final analysis, it will be their continued financial unfeasibility that will fuck over blacks more effectively than any white racist's wildest dreams. Forget abominable and violent, negroes are just too damn expensive for America to continue keeping as pets. There is a huge tax revolt coming and blacks will be among the first to be rightly written off as "non-essential expenditures."

Anonymous said...

All I can say is that black people suck!

Lionel said...

I can't find my copy of Spengler's "Decline of the West" so I can't give you the exact quotation. In one of his musings, Spengler speaks of illiterate goatherds wandering among the collapsed monuments of high civilizations built by there ancestors, with the goatherds having no clue about who built these monumental structures, or why, and what happened in the exact spot in a bygone age.

Paul's Biggest Fan said...

All too true, these comments. One thing to mention, before any DWL get in on the act - analogies to Egypt and the Sphinx DO NOT mean Africans build such structures as a rule.

There is a difference between Northern, Arab, Muslim Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa. They're not the same thing. At all.

Anonymous said...

Blacks are ruining public transit in ultra-white Seattle, and even the DWL libtards in Seattle can't ignore it anymore - check out the comments:

http://publicola.com/2011/04/06/light-rail-is-becoming-more-like-the-7-and-thats-a-good-thing/

Futura said...

The story of the Africanization of Detroit can be followed in pictures...
The Story of Detroit In Pictures

KEV said...

Blog Owner...this caught my eye..
back circa 1972 dr edelin in boston was charged with murder
dr nolan wrote a book
'THE BABY IN THE BOTTLE'
EDELIN AND THE 8 MONTHS PREGNANT WOMAN WERE...GUESS WHAT SKIN COLOR?

GUESS HERE...................

ndated photo provided by the Salt Lake County Jail shows Dr. Nicola Riley. Riley and Dr. Steven Brigham, two out-of-state doctors who traveled to Maryland to perform late-term abortions, have been arrested and charged with multiple counts of murder under the state's viable fetus law, authorities said Friday, Dec. 30, 2011. Salt Lake County Jail / AP Photo

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/12/30/2566800/maryland-abortion-doctors-charged.html#storylink=cpy

Anonymous said...

SHINGTON - Authorities say two doctors who traveled to Maryland to perform late-term abortions have been arrested and charged with multiple counts of murder, an unusual use of a law that allows for murder charges in the death of a viable fetus.
Related Abortion » Sexual Health » Salt Lake City »
Abortion doctors charged with murder after 35 fetuses foundChicago Tribune
2 doctors indicted for murder over late-term Md. abortionsUSA TODAY
Highly Cited:Two Maryland abortion doctors face murder chargesCNN International
From Maryland:Abortion doctors charged with murderABC2 News
From New Jersey:Dr. Steven Chase Brigham, N.J. abortion specialist, indicted on murder chargesnewjerseynewsroom.com
In Depth:Doctors in botched Elkton abortion face murder chargesBaltimore Sun

Anonymous said...

WHAT ABOUT IN PHILLY A YEAR OR 2 AGO..
ALL THOSE DEAD BABIES AT THE CLINIC

OR THE CURIOUS CASE OF DR PAT CHAVIS???

rjp said...

Chicago is going to be far worse than Detroit I think, number wise.

The only thing that may save Chicago is that a bankruptcy judge may look at the sweetheart sales of infrastructure and void the contracts -- but that won't happen soon enough for Rahm.

Rahm will never be president, he will never be able to recover from the shithole of Chicago he wanted to be mayor of. Chicago is taxing everything across the board - except being black.

If you don't know, Chicago has leased it's revenue from parking meters, some parking lots, and a toll highway until the 2070s. All at prices that were seriously under valued. The items were sold on those days prices .... well not even actually .... the numbers were disgusting. I need to find that paper work I did.

W74 said...

SwampThizzle said,
There is a huge tax revolt coming and blacks will be among the first to be rightly written off as "non-essential expenditures."

Indeed. Taxes aren't so bad if the taxes go toward benefiting the people who pay into the system. The reason Whites are revolting against taxes right now: because we're paying and not seeing the benefits, while other are not paying at all and benefiting greatly.

================================

Eye Of Horus said,
"The Chinese and Hispanics will not give one penny, or whatever money replaces the Dollar after the Fall of the USA, to support these cretins"

Indeed they will not support welfare if they're the ones paying. In fact the Chinese will take over Africa [pointed out by Californian and others] but their colonialism will be of a fundamentally different organization: without borders, without regards to tribal groups (again) and without mercy.

Africa's resources are largely still untapped (because the black population makes them inaccessible as opposed to the terrain), but the Chinese will set up resource gathering towns stationed with military personnel. They will pay black managers to run the towns and the workers. That work of course will be done by Africans enslaving other Africans. Thus, the Chinese with supply themselves with raw materials far below real market prices.

================================

Playing Roots Backwards said,
"All that Detroit, Birmingham and other predominately Black metropolises need is one system of shallow ditches that carries the black and gray water to the river, and one system of shallow ditches that carries the fresh water from the river. "

I've seen this first hand in Najaf, which is supposed to be a Holy City to both Sunnis and Shiites. They litterally innundate their fields from the Euphrates and get their drinking water this way or from shallow wells. The water table there really isn't that deep. But of course the sewage runs (open surface) toward the river and they wonder why they pretty much live with dysentery and cholera as a daily given and experience worse diseases such as E-coli, and Legionnaires disease. Without US medics to treat them I don't know what they're going to do. We simply can't help them if they're going to poop in their drinking water.

==============================
Me,
And they pay way too much for things. One problem is that they probably USE way too much electricity and water, but the infrastructure is the other. I was surprised to hear that some pay at all with government subsidies so prevalent. I think I typically pay $11 dollars/mo. for water and about $40 for electricity. I try to keep my heat low when I'm not home, off entirely between Sept. and Oct. and again in late March through May. The fridge is the killer since that's the only thing besides the alarm clock that's on 100% of the time. My wife and I have simply learned to shut off lights and electronics when not in use. We're frugal as hell in every area.

But even if the blacks weren't paying $200+ utilities it's not like they'd save the money to improve their conditions. Nope, they'd go out and spend it at Foot Locker as we've recently seen, or Wal-mart or McDs. It'd just be more for them to blow...

Discard said...

Anon at 9:52 PM, Dec 29: 60% of the wealth on the Philippines is controlled by Chinese, who are 2% of the population. The technical phrase is "market dominant minority". There are similar situations in many Third World places, though not generally as extreme as the P.I. Ten million Chinese would easily control Mexico, by running the economy, favoring their own at every turn, and bribing the politicians.

americathedead said...

"I'm just sick and tired of non-whites of any stripe."

That is just silly. Do you worry about a Chinese man robbing you? Do you worry about all the Japanese on the dole?

Negroes are the problem....period.

Anonymous said...

We've been told that poverty and pathological ideology (e.g., the MSM's glorification of the ghetto thug "culture") account for the huge numbers of disfunctional blacks in this country. At one point I was willing to believe that. If only the right messages were communicated to blacks, they'd straighten up and become welcome participants in a civil society.

Many events in the last 30 years have forced me to completely abandon that belief. I know there are normal, even intelligent blacks, but there simply aren't enough of them. One story in particular began the change in my thinking. It's about my friend's short experience as landlord in Oakland, California.

Sometime around 1975, he bought a slum house near Fruitvale Avenue. Back then, it offered a real possibility of making some rental income off of it. He brought it up to code. Even 35 years ago, California was strict about such things, but it was figured a half year's rent would get the balance sheet out of the red.

The new tenants of this a four bedroom, one bath victorian near Fruitvale Avenue were a 'family' of black people ("blended" and "fluid" as the social workers say now). Mother, mother's boy friend, uncles, cousins and children. Maybe ten people in all. Most adults were on some form of assistance despite their hale and hardy condition. A couple had jobs, but fulltime -- no -- except for the mother.

One day the toilet got plugged or so my friend says... He discovered this because the Oakland Police with the health inspector summoned him to the property to discuss its foul odor. The neighbors were complaining. When he entered to inspect, it looked like the family had vacated at least five days prior without a word to him, most likely, because of the stench. Where from? A hole chopped into the living room floor opening directly above the basement. For at least two, maybe three weeks, the hole was used instead of the toilet. This was inferred based on the mountain of shit that could be seen in the basement from the hole.

Of course, the police and health inspector wanted to blame him for the unsafe living conditions. To avoid fines and a court appearance -- and despite the stench -- my landlord friend convinced the officers to accompany him to check the toilet (safety reasons as someone could be lying in wait, you see). The toilet was indeed clogged. My friend located a magical device called "plunger" and cleared it in less than a minute despite the bowl's full mixture.

Clogged toilet? Call the landlord. Can't get through because you didn't pay your phone bill? Chop a hole in the floor and shit down it instead. Of course, the smell gets pretty bad, so you'll have to leave the place soon, but hey, at least you get one up on Y-TAY.

He knew the police would clear it with the health inspector after he heard one officer say to the other: "TNB".

The damage to the property cost too much to repair, but he was able to "gift" the house to the City of Oakland (it was after all in a "special zone"). A week after the transfer was complete another bit of magic occured: It burned to the ground.

* * *

Of course, the DWLs will claim horror stories like this occur in all sorts of poor communities. At the time, I wanted to believe that, but to live there long enough to create a mountain didn't compute. No one can hate the white man enough to live above of that much freshness just for revenge. Something else was at work, and it definitely was not grey matter.

Caiden said...

“People of color have the fewest opportunities to leave urban centers and are left to pay for the crumbling legacy of a bygone economic era.”

There are so many half truths here it's mindboggling. I mean, one sentence says so much that the writer didn't intend.

WHy do blacks have the fewest opportunities, considering they can have get jobs for simply being black, and can sue if they fired claiming racism?

What about all the money saved by living in the projects and food stamps? Why do blacks turn the project, rent free building GIVEN to them because they can't survive on their own, and they see to piss everywhere and attack interlopers like animals.

WHy did the whites flee? If Detroit and other chimp overrun cities were such wonderful cities, why did all the whites leave?

Why is it a crumbling 'legacy' of a 'bygone' era? Why couldn't the blacks maintain it? If they don't need whites why is Detroit crumbling?

Its all so damn obvious, but the writer is probably a nigger himself or a white who lives in safely in the suburbs who will still bad mouth the suburbs as being 'boring'.

Caiden said...

"In africa, there is no written language or recorded history."

That's because whites stole them.

Kylie that's funny as hell. I was bringing this up on a yahoo news article about two No Border Drs who were shoot by an exemployee local. Someone mention Mali which lasted only 400 years. And he was acting like it was Atlantis or something, as if they had built any structures they left behind like the pyramids.

Hell, Stonehenge is just some rocks standing up, and that's far more impressive then anything niggers built on their own even in the last 100 years!

Caiden said...

~AV~,

Well, liberals and BRA go hand in hand. Blacks could not have taken over Detroit, Birmihgham, or any other white city if liberals didn't hide the truth about black abilites from white.

Even now liberals cover up history (ie the Zebra didn't exist for most white people only the Klan did) and do the same now.

Yes, niggers turned Detroit, and dozens of other cities and towns, but liberals gave them the keys. Liberals enable niggerdoms by making whites think there is nothing wrong with apes running lose, so much that whites built a low cost train system to the Mall of America so they can riot when Drake and Lil Wayne are supposed to be around. The niggers rioted, but the liberals built the trains that got them there.

Look, we all know the truth, I'm sure RUsh does to. But liberals still hold sway in the media. If Jon Stewart has proof Rush is an 'evil wacist!!!' more whites will keep their blinders on.

The best thing to do is wake up the fence sitter, the diehard liberals who refuse to be realistic about blacks can get stabbed or shoot by the nigger crime waves for all I care. But if we're going to have any chance of rebuilding the US we need to be careful.

I'm some guy on the internet, if I call out blacks on their problems it won't reinforce liberal lie machine. If Rush does it it could.

I'm not saying we need to convert liberals, I'm saying we need to convert the people the liberals are lying to. For a few years at least, no white public figure will be honest about blacks being a failed race of retards. If they did the collective white guilt ridden masses will tie they blindfolds on tighter.

There is no easy way out of this mess, sadly, as we need many others to wake up, grow up, and act like adults.

Californian said...

What we really need stocking up on is a vision that can be sold to others, a distinct sense of Europe-based higher civilization.

True.

A major failing has been a lack of an ideology to counter liberalism.

Dissident said...

There will be blowback for certain. We whites are industrious, resourceful, ambitious and we'll only be pushed so far. I'm not a white nationalist, nor am I a Racist (TM), or a prideful militant. I am, however, a lover of my European culture and the Christian style civilization that I see being degraded every day. I'm unapologetic in defending what little liberties we have left in this country and I'm damned tired of seeing my people being prayed upon by common street criminals and vicious thugs.

White people are waking up. I don't know if enough will wake up in time to save the whole structure, but we all know that in a full scale conflict that the smartest, and most determined will survive intact. What I lack in intelligence, I more than make up for in determination. A determination to see a nice place for my children to grow up and feel safe in. For civilized and repsectable people to reside and advance in.

This country is a powder keg and a ticking time bomb. Just wait 'till Obama loses the next election? Can we say CHAOS? I wouldn't want to be within 100-miles of any majority black urban craphole.

mpresley said...

There is a saying:

The white man comes to the desert and creates an oasis after his kind.

The yellow man comes to the oasis, cultivates and preserves it after his kind.

The black man comes to the oasis and turns it into a desert, after his kind.

Dissident said...

Meant to say "preyed upon". Sorry.

Kylie said...

"There is a difference between Northern, Arab, Muslim Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa. They're not the same thing. At all."

Very good point and something to remember. Most African-Americans are descended from Sub-Saharan Africans.

Anonymous said...

That railroad building is a curse brought on by one guy:
Detroit billionaire Matty Moroun. He won't fix it and he won't tear it down. so it sits there as a monument to Detroit's ruination. If the city had any balls whatever they'd seize the place as nuisance and demolish it like they did with Hudson bldg when it got decrepit.

Zenster said...

Laz: Chinese draconian rule VS total BRA and the extinction/enslavement of the white American

I understand your point but suggest that you study Asian history a bit more. The Chinese consider themselves the Master Race™ in ways that the Nazis and Islam can only dream of.

Just on a genetic basis, the Chinese have an ability to absorb the entire world's other genomes without so much as a polite belch afterwards. As Anonymous (December 29, 2011 9:52 PM) said:

Mexico has 110 million. 10 million Chinese would come nowhere close to controlling the Mexican state. But they probably would invigorate the Mexican economy and might help provide more opportunity to keep Mexicans home.

Nowhere does this address the fact that those "10 million Chinese" would then start sending home untold millions of dollars per year as is their practice wherever they go.

Please pay close heed to what Discard pointed out:

60% of the wealth on the Philippines is controlled by Chinese, who are 2% of the population. The technical phrase is "market dominant minority". There are similar situations in many Third World places, though not generally as extreme as the P.I. Ten million Chinese would easily control Mexico, by running the economy, favoring their own at every turn, and bribing the politicians.

This would free up even more government spending for military hardware and recruiting. Plus, much like with the Cuban missile crisis, it would open the door for Chinese military bases on our Southern border. Ever think of that?

Few people seem to realize that China, in this time of relative peace, is expanding their war machine on an unprecedented scale.

America, and the remaining world does NOT need an even more overheated Chinese economy. In an odd similarity to Mexico, we do not need to provide China with a "pressure relief valve" for their over-population and resource acquisition. We need China's people bottled up with their hyper-corrupt government along with their ultra-polluted and stripped out environment until that entire Communist house of cards implodes.

The analogy with Mexico is just as powerful. America's porous borders acts as a safety valve for the graft-riddled Mexican government. We need a Berlin-Wall style barrier along our Southern border so that young Mexican males are obliged to marinate in the sewage pond that their leaders have created for them.

Maybe then, they will rise up and begin to kill their Vampire Elite so that their country can finally have some truly representative government. If not, at least America has finally sealed one of its most dangerous paths of infection.

You do realize that our border patrols are finding Qur'ans and Arabic headgear out in the deserts where Mexican "coyotes" are smuggling across Hamas terrorists, don't you?

Zenster said...

Anonymous (December 30, 2011 10:56 AM): As opposed to...who?
The list of "solutions providers" is very short, perhaps empty.


Yes, it is and it's cold comfort with respect to defeating Obama next year. The GOP slate is a bunch of warmed over has-beens. Only Bachman shows any promise and her chances are close to zero. Newt "gets" Islam but has also been seen in the company of Al Sharpton, whoring himself for the Black vote. Nuff said.

The prospects are grim.

Nonetheless, that let's no one off the hook in terms of solutions. If anything, it should make it all that much more apparent how unsuited most of America's "leadership" is for any position of importance.

I've never expected Limbaugh to be free of sin or imperfection, nor do I agree with everything he says or does. However, I appreciate his unique ability to see through the disguise of liberal subterfuge, along with his infectious optimism.

Limbaugh's inability to parse Liberalism from BRA damns him to irrelevance just as it should for anyone else who insists upon remaining oblivious to this central issue. I wonder if Rush has even freed himself from the Religion of Peace [spit] and its "tiny minority" meme. Somehow, I doubt it.

Zenster said...

americathedead: Do you worry about a Chinese man robbing you?

Yes, actually I do.

Have you noticed all of the Chinese nationals being arrested for espionage and attempts to transfer sensitive technology back to China?

Let's ignore for the nonce that China leads the world in constant cyber-attacks upon the Pentagon and many of America's largest and most strategic corporations.

So, yes, I "worry about a Chinese man robbing" my country. It might be on a different scale, far worse actually, but there's little difference with respect to the corrosive influence either one can have.

Zenster said...

Silent Running: What's important about this statement is the obvious defiance in the old woman's words. She's telling us: "Keep it up, cracker, and see what happens." Though she'd never admit it, she's proud of the black propensity for violence.

Spot on, pal.

This is just one more similarity that Blacks share with Islam. There is always this unspoken but manifest threat of violence. As in:

"Go ahead and print your Mohammad cartoons but I cannot promise what will happen."

This, despite how it is the region's most influential imam talking. A person who could start or stop a riot with the ease of flicking a light switch.

So it is with Blacks, there is always an unstated threat of physical assault whenever a dispute of any sort arises. Those who would beg to differ really need to consider exactly what "Knockout King" really implies. If serious bodily harm comes with such facility on a random basis, what does that infer when there is an actual confrontation taking place?

Zenster said...

Ivan Shatov: The summary deportation of criminal groids to Liberia or any other sub-Saharan hellhole would serve to eventually rid our nation of this terrible scourge. Don't execute them, just deport them.

The Muzzies present another problem altogether. ANY Muzzie should be deported summarily.


Congratulations. At least you are willing to furnish some sort of solution, no matter how impracticable. It is still better than nothing. There has to be a starting point so that the vox populi can begin to ruminate on these topics.

If you want to think about mass deportations, please consider reading the superlative work by El Inglés: "On the Failure of Law Enforcement".

It is a hard-eyed appraisal of what it would take to deport Europe's Muslim population and all of the exigencies implied. There is little difference between that and America deporting it's Black population back to ostensible country's of origin, save that it would be only slightly more difficult due to lack of proximity.

As nearly impossible as it seems, these measures and others even more draconian will have to be undertaken.

Of this you can be sure. Just as Islam continues to ratchet up tensions but keeps them just below the trigger point of full-scale war, so do DWLs maintain a constant pressure upon White America without overtly revealing itself as the true enemy of White culture.

BOTH ARE CONSTANTLY UPPING THE BUTCHER'S BILL.

Both are assuring that when whatever day of reckoning arrives, it will be bloody beyond belief.

Zenster said...

Californian: A major failing has been a lack of an ideology to counter liberalism.

There has been at least one suitable candidate: Objectivism.

I know that theists will find her objectionable but at least she tried. Some 99% of the philosophical trash (think: B.F. Skinner et al), that came out of the latter 20th century was unsuitable for lining bird cages.

The "lack of an ideology" is largely due to an unwillingness to support Free Market Capitalism. Sadly, criminals of every stripe (but especially white collar criminals), have blackened Capitalism's reputation rather badly in the last few decades. Before then, it was Marxist propaganda that made everyone gun shy of defending "Capitalist pigs".

This, too, will be covered in my forthcoming essay.

Anonymous said...

There are still a few 2000 year old aquaducts supplying water to european cities.
Harrisburg PA will be the another place to fall in BRA. There was a white mayor for 20years and he even found money for a museum which the black woman who took his place had to sell millions of $ worth of stuff from. It has declared bankrupcy after 3years of black rule. Under black rule the local NAACP asked the govenor to declare martial law after 12 black on black shootings in one month. A good portion of debt came from a minority owned buisness that wasn't smart enought to know repair work on the incinerator was beyond their skills, like paying a hobo to fix your car.

Anonymous said...

60% of the wealth on the Philippines is controlled by Chinese, who are 2% of the population. The technical phrase is "market dominant minority".

Zenster, we too in the USA have a market dominant minority of similar proportions. I am waiting for your upcoming essay and hope you mention them and what sorts of policies they have collectively pushed. BRA could not have been put into place without them.

Anonymous said...

When it comes to the undertow, the financial production of the city in which they reside doesn't make a difference. Even when blacks get preference for government jobs.

Depending on which list you consult, Philadelphia has either the 7th or 8th highest GDP in the world. Not in the state. Not in the country. In the world.

With such a high production, Philadelphia should share the general atmosphere, or at least the equivalent civility and cleanliness, of any of the great European business cities. Frankfort, Zurich, Brussels, Hamburg, etc.

Instead, unless you keep to the few islands of white residence or business/tourist centers in the city, it feels like a third world hellhole. It's about as dangerous.

Whenever there is black on white crime here, which is often and frequently of the rape and murder variety, it's covered up (no faces or names - but frequently audio which gives the race associations away). However, when it's white on black all faces are shown and big interviews are done. However, the white on black crimes are never rape/murder. The crime and big story this week? White people harassing black people for moving into the one small corner of the city that these poor white people have left. The blacks have taken over the poor neighborhoods throughout the city, forcing poor white to move out of houses and into suburbs that they can't afford. Its either that, or live with a far higher level of violence, crime and fear. I can think of at least two covered up newsworthy incidents of black on white crime, in the past two months, that happened in the same neighborhood where this black woman was getting harassed for moving. One involved a black shooting a white person, and the other involving a team of black 'youths' invading a white man's home with intent to maim/kill. One quickly left "to get his gun". This was in response to the man's young son having a recreation yard dispute with one of the black boys. They were successfully repelled from the house.

Anonymous said...

I am utterly astounded at the volume and quality of the comments to the articles lately. I will not be surprised to see articles with 200+ comments in the coming weeks.

The only thing that concerns me is that SBPDL might be facing catastrophic success: growing too fast, too quick before the rest of the world catches up and google decides to hit one key stroke to turn it off.

I hope some contingency plan is in effect. Once you grow a raging inferno like this, it's hard to snuff it out!

Anonymous said...

"For fuck's sake, didn't Paul recently give you a chance to vent all you liked about your pet obsession? Not good enough, I guess. The Unmentionables are ancient, black-hearted creatures with incredible magical powers, after all."

I would shut the fuck up when anyone politely uses the word "unmentionable". After all, a poster above used "Lutheran" and "Mormon" without admonishment. The "unmentionables" are the only ones to get special treatment, as they demand, and therefore you should be polite when such privilege is being exerted. Take your victory and be happy. Our opinions won't change, though. Without the "unmentionables" speaking up for the black undertow for the past hundred years or so, it wouldn't exist. We suffer because of their social experiment. Millions of of lives affected, tens of thousands ending in violent death. Great cities ruined. All because of their social experiment born out of a desire to destroy the majority and create a never-gonna-happen multicultural utopia where they ostensibly blend in as just one of many small groups. So, again, respect the terminology. If you want to argue in public about it, it'll be your rhetorical loss. Even the few effective nationalistic blacks that exist blame the unmentionables. Even the sparse few unmentionables that I've talked to, who had a moment of honesty, admitted blame. From the beginning.

Anonymous said...

"If you want to think about mass deportations, please consider reading the superlative work by El Inglés: "On the Failure of Law Enforcement"."

The sleight of hand in his work is that we can exert no pressure on recalcitrant governments. If we are interning hostile populations, then we can also cut off food and water exports(hydraulic despotism in essence) to said nations if they do not comply with our demands.

Likewise military force is more than capable of toppling a government, as we saw with most recently libya, though in the case that we topple an actual badguy government we'll have to use more force or harsher tactics.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (December 31, 2011 3:55 PM): Zenster, we too in the USA have a market dominant minority of similar proportions. I am waiting for your upcoming essay and hope you mention them and what sorts of policies they have collectively pushed. BRA could not have been put into place without them.

I am glad that you are anticipating my upcoming post here at this forum. However, out of respect for Paul and SBPDL's readership, my essay deals almost exclusively with Blacks and BRA. Since I attempt to examine root causes, your suggestion will be taken under advisement but, please, don't hold your breath.

That said, please permit me to give you the gift that everyone gives and nobody takes; ADVICE.

You and everybody else that post under the screen name "Anonymous" all do yourselves a huge disfavor. Whatever message you seek to impart is heavily diluted by the fact that your words do not assemble behind a single given persona.

Without the minimal signature of a screen name, or even just a sign-off monicker, your comments wash into a sea of other "Anonymous" contributions and get lost in the crush. Please consider choosing a handle, even if it is only for use at this board, and sticking with it.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (December 31, 2011 4:07 PM): Depending on which list you consult, Philadelphia has either the 7th or 8th highest GDP in the world. Not in the state. Not in the country. In the world.

I sincerely doubt this. California routinely places between #8 and #12 in terms of global GDPs (if it were a separate nation), and I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that a lone city such as Philadelphia is magically able to generate more earnings than the combined revenues of Silicon Valley, Hollywood and that agricultural phenomenon known as "The Central Valley" (which supplies half of the fruits and vegetables consumed by the USA).

To wit:

1. California, it is often said, would be the world’s sixth- or seventh-largest economy if it was a separate country. Actually, that would be the eighth, according to this map [of US state economies if they were foreign nations], as France (with a GDP of $2.15 trillion) is #8 on the aforementioned list.

8. Pennsylvania – [is equivalent to the] Netherlands (GDP #18 at $613 billion)

$2.15 trillion and $613 billion are hardly in the same league and that is for the entire state of Pennsylvania. Please produce a credible citation with URL link before you expect anyone to believe that.

We can debate (or not), the rest of your comment separately.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (December 31, 2011 4:08 PM): I am utterly astounded at the volume and quality of the comments to the articles lately. I will not be surprised to see articles with 200+ comments in the coming weeks.

Too late. (247 Comments)

Anonymous said...

Well I'll be damned Zenster, I missed that one. My point though is that SBPDL has struck a particular nerve that is bringing more traffic and more fresh, relevant interesting commentary. I wouldn't be surprised if within the year it has the same comment volume as something like roisy.

Anonymous said...

A rather telling indictment of their stewardship or lack of.

Californian said...

There has been at least one suitable candidate [for an ideology]: Objectivism.

Objectivism might work. Consider two things:

1) Objectivism has as political objectives: ending the welfare state, holding individuals accountable for their actions, dismantling affirmative action et alia, a proactive foreign policy, etc. Objectivism also plays on traditional American values of individual liberty, the free market, and the self-made man.

2) But the real strength of Objectivism is not in its policies; all ideologies claim to be about a laundry list of political points, few of which are ever enacted in reality (see James Burnham's "The Machiavellians" for more on this number. Objectivism's real strength is the fervor which it instills in its believers. It's unshakeable, because like any good ideology, conflicts with reality can always be explained away. Moreover, Objectivism does provide a vision which is sorely lacking in the right of center, that of a free society in which superior individuals can rise to skyscraper heights--completely opposed to the various welfare statist ideologies pushed by the left of center. And Objectivism these days seems to be promoting the superiority of certain civilizations (us) over other civilizations (them).

Might work.

Anonymous said...

All of you people are going to be judged by God and you and your kids are going to rot in hell, you all are racists.... Grow up and get a life, this is sick! Go see a shrink!!!

Zenster said...

Ewwwww … we're waycists, nasty evil waycists!

[wrings hands]

Whatever shall we do, wherever shall we go?

Waycists, all of us!

[insert sobbing sounds >here<]

Zenster said...

Californian, all joking aside, thank you for taking Objectivism at face value. Gauging from your deft synopsis of it, you have some prior acquaintance with Rand's general body of work.

For those who do not, permit me to suggest the following titles:

Non-Fiction

Philosophy Who Needs It

Capitalism the Unknown Ideal

The New Left: The Anti-Industrial Revolution


Fiction

The Fountainhead

Atlas Shrugged


This last title is one of the few books that can match George Orwell's "1984" for prescient forecasting of where our world would be several decades after initial publication. Rand's fictional stereotyping can, at times, seem rather "White Hat ― Black Hat" but it serves a useful purpose for her morality plays by concentrating virtues and character flaws in a beneficial manner.

For those short on time or patience, I would recommend either "Capitalism the Unknown Ideal" or "The New Left: The Anti-Industrial Revolution". They are relatively short and, in order, are a defense of Capitalism as the only functional socioeconomic system and, secondly, a scathing appraisal of Leftism's demagnetized moral compass. Both are guaranteed to enlighten while diagramming much of what modern academia and the MSM would prefer to remain unknown.

Germane to SBPDL, none of Ayn Rand's works have any "magic negroes" in them, much less any Blacks at all.

Anonymous said...

One of the most amusing incidents to come out of Detroit happened just a few weeks ago.

Two blacks were crushed by a building that had collapsed after the two blacks took out a few steel columns from it. They went into the abandoned building in an attempt to steal much of the remaining metal, not fully understanding the actual structure of the building was supported by the very same thing they were looking to steel.
The cut the columns, the building collapsed, and they were removed from our gene pool.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (January 1, 2012 11:21 AM): Two blacks were crushed by a building that had collapsed after the two blacks took out a few steel columns from it.

This is normally known as a "two fer".

Anonymous said...

To the person who said we and are children are all going to hell for being racists:

Get a life. Move out of your parent's basement. Pay your own way and then get back with us.

As to people being racists, funny that telling the truth is now a definition of being racist. Please show us where we are factually wrong regarding black behavior.

I was aghast when I read that many black students view education as being a 'white thing'. Does that mean the illiteracy and the poverty that all too often accompanies it are a 'black thing?'

As a supposed 'racist' why should I care if black children don't get an education? They make their own problems society's problem when they can't/won't pull their own weight.

My daughter taught 2nd and 3rd grade students. She was astonished that many of the black children when asked what they wanted to be when they grew up responded with pimp or hoes. Where did they learn that? Home perhaps? Watching big brother/sister/mom (dad is in prison or out with some other woman) and learning from them maybe?

Black families used to have a much lower rate of illegitimate births than they do now. 70% + out of wedlock birth rate. Makes the question of whose your daddy more poignant. Think you have problems now just wait for the inbreeding to start (having sex with a half sister/brother is inbreeding). You will witness first hand the fruits of out of control genetic damage.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

One of the most amusing incidents to come out of Detroit happened just a few weeks ago.

Two blacks were crushed by a building that had collapsed after the two blacks took out a few steel columns from it. They went into the abandoned building in an attempt to steal much of the remaining metal, not fully understanding the actual structure of the building was supported by the very same thing they were looking to steel.
The cut the columns, the building collapsed, and they were removed from our gene pool.


Gravity, not just a good idea. Is is the law.

Anonymous said...

One of the things that many may overlook is the skill set required to maintain even the simplest system. Once the whites left (retirement/voting with their feet/abandoning a career/etc), especially those who knew the system it left people in charge who may have known little on how to fix things. Take the water supply as a simple system. Where are the shut off valves? Who knew where they all were? Who knew where the stubs were located (pipes still under pressure but for all intents and purposes abandoned)?

When those with the training left it creates a knowledge hole making those left behind much more vulnerable to not being able to maintain things. A person thrown into a management job who has never put together a budget often has no idea of what it takes to get one going.

So both the front-line workers and management are clueless. This can be overcome, but with a lot of very hard work on the part of everyone involved.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (January 1, 2012 5:32 PM): When those with the training left it creates a knowledge hole making those left behind much more vulnerable to not being able to maintain things.

This is a common misconception driven by poor workplace practices.

Meticulous documentation and regular rotation of task assignments can overcome many of the issues that you cite.

That said, guess what? Most companies, large or small, have crappy documentation. Since documenting WIP (Work In Progress) does not generate immediate capital, the common attitude is "Just get the job done and worry about documentation later."

This recipe for disaster is one of the main reasons why "tribal lore" remains so important in jobs of all description. The modern corporate practice of firing senior workers to reduce wage and benefits payout only serves to exacerbate the problem in every worst way.

So both the front-line workers and management are clueless. This can be overcome, but with a lot of very hard work on the part of everyone involved.

Hard work? You may as well be speaking Etruscan to most Blacks when you say that. Ergo, the problem that you have already described.

Anonymous said...

Heh heh heh heh heh. You are so right about the get it done attitude first and we'll document it later stuff in the workplace. A major test equipment mfg decided (in the late 70s) to get rid of the folks in their wafer fab area so they laid off nearly everyone who had any experience. Comes time to produce ICs and yields are incredibly poor. They call around and discover that the workers had tweaked the process over the years to improve yields. None of this was documented. They had to rehire many of those recently fired at a substantial pay increase. The rehired people took their time in properly documenting things, but did a good job of it.

Californian said...

"The New Left: The Anti-Industrial Revolution".

I have a well-worn copy sitting on my bookshelf! It's chock full of good essays, written way back in the 1960s. Rand saw where things were going way back then, though she does not deal with race per se. But she does peg what would become the PC left quite well. She makes an interesting point: that even though the left is wrong, they will probably come out ahead because they have an ideology whereas their conservative opponents do not.

Californian said...

All of you people are going to be judged by God and you and your kids are going to rot in hell, you all are racists....

If you want to see "hell," then try moving to any black run country: how about Rwanda or Uganda or Congo or Haiti? Or Detroit? The cold hard fact which you need to realize is that when white "racists" abandon control of a society and turn it over to blacks, civilization disintegrates. Blacks immediately create endemic crime, corruption, despotism, economic collapse, infrastructure rot, and assorted other unpleasantness right out of Dante.

Now, would you really want your children living in a black run society? Think about it. Consider what happened to Amy Biehl when she went to South Africa to "fight racism:" the local blacks cut her to pieces. Think that any sane white person would want that to happen to their own children?

Don't you ever ask why blacks flee their own societies, whether Somalia or inner city Detroit, to move into those terrible white "racist" countries? That alone ought to tell you something: that blacks consider the societies that they have built to be, well, hellacious.

Anonymous said...

I think the difference between European decendents and African decendents is that Europeans had a thousand years to perfect their society, and once that was achieved it was given to the world.

The Africans were living in the bush just several generations ago. It's not in their genetic makeup to want to make that type of society.
Just my two cents.

Anonymous said...

@January 1, 2012 11:21 AM:
"Two blacks were crushed by a building that had collapsed after the two blacks took out a few steel columns from it."....

HMMMM...Maybe someone will post a craigslist want ad for steel columns?
LOL

Zenster said...

Anonymous (January 2, 2012 4:33 AM): You are so right about the get it done attitude first and we'll document it later stuff in the workplace.

Thank you for not taking any umbrage at my refutation of your original point. We both seem to know about the how and why of good documentation along with the multitude of obstacles management will always throw in the way of proper engineering capture.

A major test equipment mfg decided (in the late 70s) to get rid of the folks in their wafer fab area so they laid off nearly everyone who had any experience. Comes time to produce ICs and yields are incredibly poor. They call around and discover that the workers had tweaked the process over the years to improve yields. None of this was documented. They had to rehire many of those recently fired at a substantial pay increase. The rehired people took their time in properly documenting things, but did a good job of it.

Sounds like HP to me.

These modern-day Harvard MBA CEO's who have never broken a sweat in their entire lives and don't know which end of a hammer to pick up, nonetheless feel qualified to cosmetically improve an under-performing company's bottom line by firing all of its high-wage and benefit entitled senior employees.

When whatever recession ends, that same company finds itself churning out low-yield crap that requires either ultra-expensive field service warranty repairs or duplicate production runs to replace RMA (Returned Materials Acceptance) dropouts.

These Politically Correct Ivy League bastards with their golden parachutes think nothing of driving American industry straight into the ground. Of little or no help is Wall Street, whose unrealistic insistence that companies show a continuous improvement in earnings every single quarter is nothing less than an open invitation for vested corporate accountants to cook their books.

GAH!

Like I always say:

I'LL BELIEVE IN OUTSOURCING WHEN I SEE CEO POSITIONS BEING OUTSOURCED.

Anonymous said...

@Zenster

For Pete's sake, buddy, of all the things to argue about, the GDP of Philadelpia, in terms of world city GDP rankings, is easy enough to check without your clogging up the thread with your pointless "I doubt it" counterpoint.

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP

This list has Philly at 9. This is one list. The ranking will vary by 1-2 spots depending on the list. Los Angeles is at 3, which corroborates your spirited defense of California, which is, btw, a state. Not a city.

Feel free to debate the rest of my post. What agree you going to debate, though? My direct experience living here? What exactly do you disagree with, and furthermore hold enough information about to warrant a debate? I'm looking forward to your response int his pointless argument that you seem to wish to wax on so arrogantly and incorrectly about.

My sense is that your response was poorly thought out, as well as your overall choice to comment on my post. Perhaps you were tired when you chose to do so.

Anonymous said...

This is a troubling pronouncement:

"[Objectivism] is unshakeable, because like any good ideology, conflicts with reality can always be explained away."

Transcendent truth, namely Christianity, is what enabled the West to rise above all previous civilizational epochs and remain there to this day. Even coupled with Roman rule of law, the power of reason so finely honed by the Greeks was not enough to sustain a flowering of Europe. One may be believer or atheist and still appreciate this generalized fact.

Objectivism is not a means of preserving the spiritual life of any society. In fact it is antithetical, if not hostile, to the man with spiritual beliefs. In this regard Objectivism shares doctrinal tenets with Communism.

Whenever man views himself as the highest potential of his own fulfillment he is subject to spasms of tyranny and ruin at the hands of those who use cold logic and reason to achieve their objectives. Those objectives will always be finite and worldly and ultimately without moral restraint.

randian said...

You can see in the now abandoned "Death of Johannesburg" blog the exact same thing that happened to Detroit, but in strikingly less time.

Anonymous said...

The death of Johannesburg blog ceased with the author's murder

randian said...

The death of Johannesburg blog ceased with the author's murder

There was a two-year gap from the last 2 posts to all previous ones, so the blog was basically dead long before. That said, was his murder announced anywhere? I can't find any information on it.

Anonymous said...

On of the contributors to Zensters supposedly patriot blog, if you follow the links out to the other blogs of the contributors, is an admitted green party member and Obama supporter. I guess that he just contributes to a supposedly ultra conservative Patriot Blog as a hobby.

Another contributor resides in Israel. But he's a primary writer for an American "Patriots Corner" blog. Other links are to Foreign national unmentionables posting about American politics (anti-Ron Paul is the new fervent flavor of the season).

What a sloppily executed false "patriot" propaganda blog.

I respectfully submit that the owner of SBPDL should ban Zenster immediately if he wants to keep his reputation intact.

Anonymous said...

The Detroit Police departments will begin closing the desks at 4:00 pm and not reopen them until 8:00 am the next day in a (IMHO feeble) attempt at reducing the budget. Always wondered what the Roman empire went through before the fall. Am living it out today. Instead of the barbarians we have the blacks and DWL greasing the skids for this downfall.

Wonder who will write the history and if it will get read.

Anonymous said...

Zenster said...

Anonymous (January 2, 2012 4:33 AM): You are so right about the get it done attitude first and we'll document it later stuff in the workplace.

Thank you for not taking any umbrage at my refutation of your original point. We both seem to know about the how and why of good documentation along with the multitude of obstacles management will always throw in the way of proper engineering capture.

******************

Am a guest over here and as such try not to track in too much dirt or to crap on the carpet as it angers the owner. My writing skills have deteriorated over the years. Use it or lose it (LOL). Just figured it was another case of crappy writing when the idea I was attempting to convey missed the intended audience. No damage done.

HP? No, but you are warm. Mother HP never was my cup of tea.

randian said...

The Detroit Police departments will begin closing the desks at 4:00 pm and not reopen them until 8:00 am the next day in a (IMHO feeble) attempt at reducing the budget

San Jose CA is already stating they won't police minor crimes like burglary. I wonder if they will even accept a report, that's an interesting way to "reduce" crime (don't take a report, ergo the crime didn't happen).

The problem is San Jose will soon be NY before Giuliani. Remember his "broken windows" policy, where if you crack down on minor problems and crimes major problems alleviate themselves? San Jose is going down the reverse path.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (January 3, 2012 10:09 AM): One of the contributors to Zensters supposedly patriot blog, if you follow the links out to the other blogs of the contributors, is an admitted green party member and Obama supporter.

Please purchase a clue. I DON'T HAVE A BLOG.

Capiche?

I guess that he just contributes to a supposedly ultra conservative Patriot Blog as a hobby.

The owner of Patriot's Corner is one of the most decent and upstanding Americans that I know. He cares very much about the USA and has even invited me to publish my SBPDL contributions at his blog.

Please try to fit that in with your own skewed perceptions.

Another contributor resides in Israel. But he's a primary writer for an American "Patriots Corner" blog.

All one in the same. And your point is?

Other links are to Foreign national unmentionables posting about American politics (anti-Ron Paul is the new fervent flavor of the season).

Do you have some sort of problem with Free Speech? Paul Kersey clearly doesn't have much of one but maybe you do. Feel free to explain.

What a sloppily executed false "patriot" propaganda blog.

Why don't you take it to "Patriot's Corner"? I'm sure the owner will not only publish your comment but leave it open for critique. In fact, I'll make sure by asking him to, even though there is ZERO need for me to do so.

I respectfully submit that the owner of SBPDL should ban Zenster immediately if he wants to keep his reputation intact.

Thank you, I really needed a good laugh today and you, wittingly or not, have managed to provide it.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (January 2, 2012 9:33 PM): Objectivism is not a means of preserving the spiritual life of any society. In fact it is antithetical, if not hostile, to the man with spiritual beliefs. In this regard Objectivism shares doctrinal tenets with Communism.

Then how do you reconcile such an obviously ill-informed assertion with the fact that, as a refugee from Soviet Russia, Ayn Rand hated Communism with her last dying breath?

Rand did not dismiss any possibility of the human spirit or belief in it. Her main objection was to the degree of superstition manifested in almost all organized religions. She sought to propound a way of structuring and assessing human behavior in a manner that was based upon consistent, rational precepts.

Whenever man views himself as the highest potential of his own fulfillment he is subject to spasms of tyranny and ruin at the hands of those who use cold logic and reason to achieve their objectives. Those objectives will always be finite and worldly and ultimately without moral restraint.

I wonder if it is even possible for you to understand how badly you turn off minds that might otherwise be open to religious or spiritual enlightenment with your absolute insistence that only through God can man find fulfillment.

An appreciation of mankind's almost miraculous consciousness and spirit does not automatically mandate a theistic credo. You may feel that way but that does not necessarily make it so.

Logic and reason can also, just as rigidly, demand that an individual follow the path of right conduct without any trace of threats about hellfire or damnation. You do Christianity, and especially Jesus, a monstrous disfavor by being so hidebound.

Anonymous said...

Zenster @ 4Jan11:

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I don't believe I indicated in my comments that only through God can man find fulfillment. But fulfillment without God or transcendent belief-- what many derisively call superstitions-- seems to miss the mark.

A belief system that rejects what it cannot grasp by reason alone is spiritually moribund and leads minds (and hearts) to darkness, not the light. As I am sure you would agree, such a system is also not religion. To a certain extent we are talking apples and oranges-- cognition vs. belief. The question is, which system holds the greatest promise for our future, earthly or otherwise?

"[Rand] sought to propound a way of structuring and assessing human behavior in a manner that was based upon consistent, rational precepts."

OK, so whose precepts are we talking about here? Yours? Mine? Hers? Who is to decide what is "rational"? Aren't we constantly having arguments with people who believe they are rational as against our own rationality? Is this not a never-ending subjective experience? I believe that only faith in something eternal and true can break that binding.

Zenster said...

The ruins of the city, neglected and rotting monuments courtesy of a people who then rebuilt what they abandoned in the white suburbs surrounding Detroit, are to the Black inhabitants of the town what those strange heads on Easter Island where to the Europeans who first encountered them.

Don't know how I missed this on the first time around but that's some damn fine writing, Paul.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (January 4, 2012 10:25 PM): Who is to decide what is "rational"?

First off, thank you in turn for your well-reasoned reply.

The answer to your question is "nature". That which is not rational has a tendency to decay and die. Survival is the ultimate arbiter of rationality.

From all indications, modern Christianity is voluntarily committing suicide by way of its misplaced universalism. It is a prime example of what happens when belief is allowed to outweigh rationality.

Aren't we constantly having arguments with people who believe they are rational as against our own rationality?

Again, belief has nothing to do with rationality. Being rational requires both internal consistency and routine unflinching self-examination, something that seems to be rather unpopular these days.

Most people's concept of rationality would crumble in the face of any testing for logic and consistency. Sadly, so would the faith of many religious people as well.

Is this not a never-ending subjective experience?

Absolutely not! There is such a thing as Right and Wrong. A simple example:

WHEN IS RAPE EVER RIGHT?

If you wish, I will provide conclusive proof of how rape is always wrong, regardless of circumstance or situation.

There are objective absolutes in our world and they provide us with essential guideposts regarding individual behavior and values. All it takes is the moral and ethical integrity to recognize and follow them.

To close, there is also absolutely no reason why religion should be in conflict with those guideposts. It is only personal inconsistency and willful irrationality or ignorance that undermines much of social cohesion.

Anonymous said...

Zenster,

"That which is not rational has a tendency to decay and die. Survival is the ultimate arbiter of rationality."

I would say that survival is the ultimate arbiter of suitability, with the proviso that things change in time. The terms "rational" and "rationality" are by now so mistreated that one often goes on the defense when hearing them.

"From all indications, modern Christianity is voluntarily committing suicide by way of its misplaced universalism. It is a prime example of what happens when belief is allowed to outweigh rationality."

Agreed with the first part but the universalism is a corruption of belief by a "rational" hyper-liberal culture.

"Again, belief has nothing to do with rationality ... "

Do you mean to say then that belief then is completely irrational? I think these two complement each other-- and each tends to quickly become dangerously unbalanced without a sincere measure of the other.

"Most people's concept of rationality would crumble in the face of any testing for logic and consistency. Sadly, so would the faith of many religious people as well."

Who should administer such a test? As you say, survival is the ultimate test...

"WHEN IS RAPE EVER RIGHT? If you wish, I will provide conclusive proof of how rape is always wrong, regardless of circumstance or situation."

Please do. Rape may not be "right" but it certainly gets a wink and a nod in some cultures. How does Objectivism account for "legitimate" cultural diversity and practices?

"There are objective absolutes ... All it takes is the moral and ethical integrity to recognize and follow them."

Then what is that social mechanism that provides these truths and ensures that our behavior is aligned with them? How do people feel and understand these things as opposed to their being administered by law? Seems to me the Church fits the bill perfectly. I am sure you despair that men should mindlessly worship at any altar, as I do also, but I will take Christianity over the capriciousness of any man-made system any day of the year.

"To close, there is also absolutely no reason why religion should be in conflict with those guideposts."

Then why should objectivists wish for the disappearance of religion?

Somehow this post seemed apropos to this discussion and this website:

http://cambriawillnotyield.blogspot.com/2011/12/against-heathens.html

Mr. Rational said...

I will take Christianity over the capriciousness of any man-made system any day of the year.

Christianity is a capricious man-made system, just like Islam.  The various sects adopt arbitrary rules by "divine revelation" to suit their own purposes in the immediate social environment.

Anonymous said...

The story of Detroit's decline is primarily the story of the decline of the Big Three automakers. UAW membership declined from 1.5 million in 1979 to 390,000 in 2010. The economy of southeastern Michigan will take generations to recover.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say some of you guys were, well, prejudiced against black people.

Besides, if you really wanted to pursue the idea that blacks don't know how to run things, you'd google "kwame Detroit" and have some facts to work with.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (January 5, 2012 11:24 PM): I would say that survival is the ultimate arbiter of suitability, with the proviso that things change in time.

For non-conscious entities, this is quite easily so. Mankind’s conscious mind is able to circumvent a portion of that evolutionary gauntlet and has wrought some serious mayhem with respect to allowing unfit members of the species to survive, especially the criminal element.

The terms "rational" and "rationality" are by now so mistreated that one often goes on the defense when hearing them.

That in no way alters the importance of their meaning or the vital role that they play in moral and ethical behavior.

["From all indications, modern Christianity is voluntarily committing suicide by way of its misplaced universalism. It is a prime example of what happens when belief is allowed to outweigh rationality."]

Agreed with the first part but the universalism is a corruption of belief by a "rational" hyper-liberal culture.

We are in total agreement. As I have noted before, I don’t think Jesus would be very approving of how Christians are opening their veins to rescue illiterate Islamic barbarians.

["Again, belief has nothing to do with rationality ... "]

Do you mean to say then that belief then is completely irrational?

No, just that the two are not interdependent.

I think these two complement each other-- and each tends to quickly become dangerously unbalanced without a sincere measure of the other.

They can but it requires an absence of blind faith, a not all too common situation.

["Most people's concept of rationality would crumble in the face of any testing for logic and consistency. Sadly, so would the faith of many religious people as well."]

Who should administer such a test?

Each of us, to ourselves ― or to our friends at their request ― and on a regular basis; sadly, the popularity of such autoscopic or introspective thought is at an all time low.

As you say, survival is the ultimate test...

Scary, all this agreement, no?

["WHEN IS RAPE EVER RIGHT? If you wish, I will provide conclusive proof of how rape is always wrong, regardless of circumstance or situation."]

Please do.

A simple thought experiment bears this out:

Suppose there is one last fertile woman one earth and no cloning technology available. If she was unwilling to mate and have offspring, how productive would raping her be to attain that goal? Wouldn’t she be far more inclined to harm the child or, possibly, induce an abortion or miscarriage? I think you get the picture. If need be, substitute “sexual child abuse” for “rape” and you still get the same answer.

Rape may not be "right" but it certainly gets a wink and a nod in some cultures.

And one look at those winking and nodding “cultures” is enough to confirm just how barbaric and unproductive they are, almost without exception. The vast majority of advanced cultures prosecute rape and for all the right reasons.

How does Objectivism account for "legitimate" cultural diversity and practices?

By insisting upon individual responsibility for not infringing upon the rights and property of others. Of course, you have opened an immense can of worms by using the qualifier “legitimate”, but it will be taken in its best if not most, er … legitimate sense.

["There are objective absolutes ... All it takes is the moral and ethical integrity to recognize and follow them." ]

Then what is that social mechanism that provides these truths and ensures that our behavior is aligned with them?

It is often referred to as the Social Contract.

[to be continued]

Zenster said...

How do people feel and understand these things as opposed to their being administered by law?

The answer to that question is buried in the mists of time. Somewhere, long before Jesus ever trod this earth, there were some truly courageous and dedicated souls who applied the Golden Rule in their daily lives and did so well outside the bounds of kith and kin. They were rewarded with a reliable and cohesive social unit that was probably far more successful than ones based solely on common genetic bonds.

Seems to me the Church fits the bill perfectly.

It can and does for many people. Especially when Christian teachings are practiced with sincerity and integrity.

I am sure you despair that men should mindlessly worship at any altar, as I do also…

We are in violent agreement.

…but I will take Christianity over the capriciousness of any man-made system any day of the year.

Which is your absolute right and privilege.

["To close, there is also absolutely no reason why religion should be in conflict with those guideposts." ]

Then why should objectivists wish for the disappearance of religion?

Regardless of Rand’s position on Objectivist doctrine, I am not willing to insist on any “disappearance of religion”. I am, however, resolute about my right to freedom from religion and continue to maintain that Theocracy is the ultimate enemy of human freedom. Not that you are advocating any such thing.

[to be continued]

Zenster said...

Somehow this post seemed apropos to this discussion and this website:

From the link:

The colored barbarians rape, murder, and pillage because white people do not believe themselves to be a people; they believe they are walking propositions without a past or future. They exist to the extent that they can serve the non-propositional people of color.

Not this human being. I don’t know what sort of people the author is talking about but whoever they are, rationality is figuring very prominent in their reality equations.

When black “youths” rampage through the Mall of America in Minnesota, attacking white people, they are not, by liberal logic, doing any harm, because they are only attacking propositional people who do not have a genuine existence.

Puzzling out the philosophical vomit of so called “Liberal logic” is a waste of time at best and just as often a fool’s errand. Liberals are addicted to Magical Thinking™ and that is the end of it.

We are facing the Descartian theory carried out to its logical conclusion. The white thinks he is an abstraction without any blood connection to a particular race or God, so he acts out the part.

The author assumes facts not in evidence. This certainly isn’t any “abstraction without any blood connection to a particular race”. I am confident of the outstanding genes I carry and fully well intend to reproduce them before shuffling off of this mortal coil.

He is a man cut off from everything that makes life worth living, a loving attachment to a particular people and a particular God.

Again, the author is merely setting up a straw man to knock down with his or her religious belief. Even without a belief in God there is plenty that makes life worth living and a rich experience to boot.

John Stuart Mill, the utilitarian philosopher, worried at one point in his life that he was becoming mad through an excess of rationality.

Evidently, Mill was a bit out of touch with his creative side.

He tried listening to music in order to subdue the rationalist monster inside him, but he couldn’t bear it because he kept thinking about the finite nature of musical compositions.

Mill’s “thinking about the finite nature of musical compositions” bears out my guess. As someone who is self-taught on several musical instruments, composes in a wide variety of styles and writes lyrics as well, I can testify that there is no “finite nature” to music. It is of infinite complexity and its ability to convey the very deepest and significant human thoughts and emotions remains unrivaled. In fact, I maintain that the Western European orchestral tradition represents an absolute and unassailable pinnacle in human artistic achievement.

I hope that this clears things up.

Anonymous said...

"The story of Detroit's decline is primarily the story of the decline of the Big Three automakers. UAW membership declined from 1.5 million in 1979 to 390,000 in 2010. The economy of southeastern Michigan will take generations to recover."

1979-2010. That's over THIRTY YEARS- a more than adequate time to make adjustments and attract new industries. Pittsburgh
was once dominated by the steel industry (if you don't know, that's how the Pittsburgh Steelers got their nickname) but the whites of Pittsburgh didn't just throw up their hands and wallow in their own feces when the steel industry collapsed. They created a smaller, thriving city with an entirely different economy.

See:
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2011/10/detroit-vs-pittsburgh-difference.html

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2012/01/what-do-these-p-cities-have-in-common.html

Zenster said...

For some reason the first two parts of my reply went missing:

Anonymous (January 5, 2012 11:24 PM): I would say that survival is the ultimate arbiter of suitability, with the proviso that things change in time.

For non-conscious entities, this is quite easily so. Mankind’s conscious mind is able to circumvent a portion of that evolutionary gauntlet and has wrought some serious mayhem with respect to allowing unfit members of the species to survive, especially the criminal element.

The terms "rational" and "rationality" are by now so mistreated that one often goes on the defense when hearing them.

That in no way alters the importance of their meaning or the vital role that they play in moral and ethical behavior.

["From all indications, modern Christianity is voluntarily committing suicide by way of its misplaced universalism. It is a prime example of what happens when belief is allowed to outweigh rationality."]

Agreed with the first part but the universalism is a corruption of belief by a "rational" hyper-liberal culture.

We are in total agreement. As I have noted before, I don’t think Jesus would be very approving of how Christians are opening their veins to rescue illiterate Islamic barbarians.

["Again, belief has nothing to do with rationality ... "]

Do you mean to say then that belief then is completely irrational?

No, just that the two are not interdependent.

I think these two complement each other-- and each tends to quickly become dangerously unbalanced without a sincere measure of the other.

They can but it requires an absence of blind faith, a not all too common situation.

["Most people's concept of rationality would crumble in the face of any testing for logic and consistency. Sadly, so would the faith of many religious people as well."]

Who should administer such a test?

Each of us, to ourselves ― or to our friends at their request ― and on a regular basis; sadly, the popularity of such autoscopic or introspective thought is at an all time low.

As you say, survival is the ultimate test...

Scary, all this agreement, no?

["WHEN IS RAPE EVER RIGHT? If you wish, I will provide conclusive proof of how rape is always wrong, regardless of circumstance or situation."]

Please do.

A simple thought experiment bears this out:

Suppose there is one last fertile woman one earth and no cloning technology available. If she was unwilling to mate and have offspring, how productive would raping her be to attain that goal? Wouldn’t she be far more inclined to harm the child or, possibly, induce an abortion or miscarriage? I think you get the picture. If need be, substitute “sexual child abuse” for “rape” and you still get the same answer.

Rape may not be "right" but it certainly gets a wink and a nod in some cultures.

And one look at those winking and nodding “cultures” is enough to confirm just how barbaric and unproductive they are, almost without exception. The vast majority of advanced cultures prosecute rape and for all the right reasons.

How does Objectivism account for "legitimate" cultural diversity and practices?

By insisting upon individual responsibility for not infringing upon the rights and property of others. Of course, you have opened an immense can of worms by using the qualifier “legitimate”, but it will be taken in its best if not most, er … legitimate sense.

["There are objective absolutes ... All it takes is the moral and ethical integrity to recognize and follow them." ]

Then what is that social mechanism that provides these truths and ensures that our behavior is aligned with them?

It is often referred to as the Social Contract.

[to be continued]

Zenster said...

How do people feel and understand these things as opposed to their being administered by law?

The answer to that question is buried in the mists of time. Somewhere, long before Jesus ever trod this earth, there were some truly courageous and dedicated souls who applied the Golden Rule in their daily lives and did so well outside the bounds of kith and kin. They were rewarded with a reliable and cohesive social unit that was probably far more successful than ones based solely on common genetic bonds.

Seems to me the Church fits the bill perfectly.

It can and does for many people. Especially when Christian teachings are practiced with sincerity and integrity.

I am sure you despair that men should mindlessly worship at any altar, as I do also…

We are in violent agreement.

…but I will take Christianity over the capriciousness of any man-made system any day of the year.

Which is your absolute right and privilege.

["To close, there is also absolutely no reason why religion should be in conflict with those guideposts." ]

Then why should objectivists wish for the disappearance of religion?

Regardless of Rand’s position on Objectivist doctrine, I am not willing to insist on any “disappearance of religion”. I am, however, resolute about my right to freedom from religion and continue to maintain that Theocracy is the ultimate enemy of human freedom. Not that you are advocating any such thing.

Zenster said...

CORRECTION

The colored barbarians rape, murder, and pillage because white people do not believe themselves to be a people; they believe they are walking propositions without a past or future. They exist to the extent that they can serve the non-propositional people of color.

Not this human being. I don’t know what sort of people the author is talking about but whoever they are, rationality is NOT figuring very prominent in their reality equations.

Newark Guy said...

I ,as a White Puerto Rican American, am sick and tired of blacks lumping us with them to increase their selfish idea of political clout! And this bull about colored this and colored that, is their way to disguise the fact that its ONLY BLACK AREAS IN THE GUTTER!. We hispanics own Hardware, Pharmacies, Bodegas/delis/restaurants,furniture stores, you name it! Just as every immigrant group before. But BRA wants to include us to hide the fact that THEY destroyed detroit phisically. It wasn't beautifull Katy Perry/Ricky Martin/Brad Pitt/J-Lo lookalikes who sneaked in between midnight,and 5 am, and burned down Detroit!!! Can someone explain why the southwest Detroit, where the Mexicans live, is preserved with all types of Mexican American businesses? Hmmmmmmm? That's what I figured, no wonder Detroits jealous spitefull majority opposes selling land at super cheap prices to immigrants willing to pioneer into Detroit.

Anonymous said...

Romans had running water 2000 years ago.

Blacks in Detroit can't figure out how to keep their basic services running today.



Cil YT! Cil YT! o noes, dis sheet ain working no moah. sumbody need to kum up in heah an fix dis sheet. Dey be owen us for da turrible, turrible slabbery.