Friday, April 20, 2012

Justice for Trayvon Martin? Trayvon Martin Got Justice -- Zimmerman Style

George Zimmerman right after his encounter with Trayvon Martin

Case closed. George Zimmerman's lawyer should request a summary judgment once in court. Trayvon Martin got justice. Per Mansfield Frazier of The Daily Beast, let the riots begin.


75 comments:

Anonymous said...

The Special Prosecutor Corey deserves the same fate as Nifong- a jail cell.

Ryzzia said...

They should let Mr. Zimmerman go. He was defending his life.

Mr. Rational said...

Anonymous: The Special Prosecutor Corey deserves the same fate as Nifong- a jail cell.

She's untouchable.  She's got protectors up to the very top of government.  That is why D'Won has to go this November (if not sooner, if Congress was doing its job he'd have been impeached already).

OT:  Newest Michigan museum showcases racist artifacts.

It sure would be interesting to have a real dialogue, with those artifacts on one side of the aisle, and on the other side the “after” pictures of Channon Christian, Anne Presley, Nancy Strait, Allen Coon, the two British tourists in Miami…

Reality Check said...

Yes, the new Ms. Nifong will end up the loser. And at what expense to the public and George Zimmerman? Whites are the most discrinated race in America.

eah said...

Per the CNN web site, Angela Corey:

"We would hope that people would give us a chance to get this task that the governor has given us accomplished," she told CNN. "We will leave no stone unturned in our quest to seek justice for Trayvon and for his parents."

I wonder if she's at all concerned about "justice" for Zimmerman. Would it still be "justice for Trayvon and for his parents" if Zimmerman was acquitted? Too bad she was not immediately asked this question.

BTW, given the extraordinary hype around it, it's a bit naive to think this foto will carry decisive weight in this case.

Anonymous said...

Oh boy. Time for me to invest in Plywood for my storefront. Although I suspect that the majority of destruction will happen on the 'other' side of town, I do own a liquor store, and Hennessy is a entitlement treasure during riots.

Fayette White Guy said...

More racial strife in SANFORD, FL:

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Witnesses-say-racial-slur-could-have-sparked-shooting-at-Sanford-apartments/-/1637132/10933272/-/g3484a/-/index.html


It's getting nuts out there, folks.

Midwestern said...

"We are all Zimmerman. One of us might be next. One of us will be next. The system is always hungry and the beasts must be fed."

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/46011

I just followed a pack of 6 black "teens" just before dark, who were walking down the middle of my street after loitering in front of my neighbor's house. They were cursing and yelling, throwing their junk food trash on the ground, and spitting. The two obese girls were using the most foul language.

They turned up the volume a notch when they saw me watching them. I stood there until they passed. They looked back at me a few times. Blacks spend lots of energy trying to annoy and intimidate whites, but they are too dumb to realize that it is not working.

Stand your ground.

Anonymous said...

Anybody catch the last episode of season 3 of Eastbound and Down (prolefeed, yes I know) this past Sunday?
-
The setting is black biker week at Myrtle Beach(?). At about 18:30 into the show, give or take a couple, the gang violently attacks the protagonists enemy, douses him with gas, and sets him on fire to burn to death.
-
Just the fact this act, although fictional, would be allowed to be seen is just one example of many illustrating that we do, in fact, live in BRA. Just imagine the outrage if the races were reversed; its very likely it would be a headline story, of course they would never write for such a scene.
-
I just wanted to vent about these things on my mind. After all it wasn't but a few months since a white juvenile was set afire by two groids, being doused with gas(and taunted the whole time, of course). It may even foreshadow this upcoming summer? Is it inciteful considering the "post-trayvon" atmosphere created, and continually stoked by the MSM?

Anonymous said...

Riot watch 2012:

Atlanta Dogwood Festival this weekend with free Roberta Flack concert. We're "encouraged" to take MARTA.

I can see. I'll be elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

Man, dat foto be's raysis n sheet.

Like the Martin family lawyer said about this evidence, "He didn't even require stitches." So, bashing someones head against cement doesn't neccessitate defensive action unless brains are spilling onto said cement.

Anonymous said...

Bail granted. I am glad that Zimmerman at least gets bail.

I hope he has more than that one lawyer for representation. I personally donated what I could afford via his website, for his legal defense, etc.

After this photo, I think people will see this man was truly defending his own life-those with a brain anyway.

Anonymous said...

Do not worry, Zimmermann will get off. It only takes one person on the jury to say no and we know at least a few will not vote to convict St. Ashtrayvon, who would have lead a very productive life as a contributing member of society.
Back of scalp injuries generally do not bleed badly (a lot of people get cuts without much blood at all) and this injury looks bad.
The only concern I have, is will Zimmermann be sued and have to pay a percentage of his wages for life to the nigger freeloader parents who will without a doubt invest the money wisely in spinners, tattoos, gold chains and teeth?

Anonymous said...

Ex New Yorker here....I was in New York City when they had "black out" riots in 1977. The first stores the blacks looted were businesses located in Harlem. They stole from their own people. The first was a fancy clothing store that sold to all the pimp daddies and dope dealers. The lights were out for days and it was just one big free for all. It wasn't one of those "We wants justice" riots. It was just a "We want shit for free" riot.

YIH said...

IT'S ABOUT EFFING TIME!!!
That has been the problem I've had here, all the claims of Zimmerman's injuries were just that, CLAIMS! Until now, no injury photos, no medical reports, no hard evidence.
I could CLAIM Paul was 10 feet tall and weighed 400 pounds but I don't think anybody's going to back that up.
The videos that have been released so far from the SPD have been inconclusive due to the angle and the poor quality. And Faux News doing a 'digital enhancement' made me think ''yeah, with 'digital enhancement' you can make it look like Bush is holding a book upside down'' which makes it meaningless.
Granted with a few squirts of 'movie blood' you could do that photo but would require a squeeze bottle of 'movie blood' handy which would require some prep work that would mean this scene was pre-planned. Not really buying that.

Anonymous said...

"I don't need to go heeled to get the bulge on a dub like you", said Treyvon.

Anonymous said...

I believe one of the provisions of the "stand your ground" law entitles a defendant to a pre-trial hearing that allows him to establish grounds for self-defense. If judge agrees at the hearing that shooting was self-defense, the case is dismissed without going to trial. Z should prevail if the judge has any courage at all. Any experts here on the Florida SYG law? Can the hearing be delayed?

Anonymous said...

He was Acting as neighborhood watch in a neighborhood recently plagued by burglaries which means that he was well within his rights to question anyone suspicious wandering around in the neighborhood. He has injuries consistent with being assaulted, which make this a clear case of self defense. What is the proper amount of beating one must take before defending yourself? Saying that his wounds didn't require stitches in trying to negate self defense is like saying that a rape must have been consensual because the rapist ejaculated too quickly. I hope that GZ not only gets acquitted but that he sues everyone from NBC to the prosecutor and cashes in. I'd actually love to see him attacked by some asshole NBPP lackey only to end up making anothah brothah good before its all said and done. Can you imagine how the liberals' heads would explode if he had to put another orc down in self defense.

Anonymous said...

Scanning yahoo's frontpage and--surprise!--not a peep about this photo to be found.

But they did manage to find the time to publish a story about Zimmerman's apology, which, while intentioned, will be used against him in the court public opinion (any man who has made the mistake of apologizing to a woman knows what I'm talking about).

YIH said...

From the Always Be Crap ''news'' link:
"I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit older than I was," Zimmerman said addressing Martin's family directly.
That always gets under my skin, GZ sounds truly apologetic for defending himself. Just like our troops overseas have to keep apologizing over and over and over again no matter what they do.
Face it folks, THIS IS WAR! Just like there's no crying in baseball, there's no apologizing for fighting and defeating your enemy on the battlefield. You killed the bad guy before the bad guy could kill you.
And make no mistake, overseas or over here, we are fighting an enemy who wants to fight us, defeat us and drag our bodies through the streets in an ad hoc victory celebration.
Do you think our enemies are concerned about being nice? Look what happened to Christian/Newsome, that was 'a sack dance' over the enemies they defeated.
From Auster:
''In the same way, not all or most blacks commit savage violence, e.g., knocking (white) pedestrians or bicyclists to the ground and then gathering around the prone helpless victim in a group and repeatedly kicking and punching him in the head while whooping and laughing. Not all or most blacks behave in this manner. But all the people who do behave in this manner are black (with a few nonwhite Hispanics occasionally thrown in). ''
Did the killer of this old lady have to do what he did? No, he was doing 'a sack dance'.
The only thing our enemies apologize for is getting captured on the battlefield alive.
Do you honestly believe if Zimmerman didn't have that gun and Shitavious had pounded his head into the pavement till he was dead that Shitavious would have actually felt the least bit of guilt about it?
NO! That would have been his 'badge of honor' among his 'homies' in 'da hood'!
Just like everywhere 'the troops' are is a battlefield 'over there', everywhere 'the black undertow' is over here is also a battlefield.
Our mission is to reduce the battlefields in this war in our country if not eliminate them completely.

Anonymous said...

@Ex New Yorker
This kid from the Bronx was living on West 79th street betw Columbus and Amsterdam when the lights went out in '77. Within 10 seconds of the lights going out the police sirens were going full blast all over the west side.The looting started within seconds of the blackout.It was just amazing how quick the mayhem started.
It's true that they looted stores in their own neighborhoods,but they also looted stores all over Manhattan-- midtown was hit hard also.
A few days after the blackout store owners all over the city were installing steel gates over their storefronts.Many of the gates were the kind you can't see thru--just solid steel.It was a booming business for anyone who sold store gates.
Unfortunatley, since then, it just isn't as pleasant to stroll around the city and window-shop in the evening.Something alot of people liked to do in the "olden days".The stores are now covered with ugly steel gates at night covered with graffiti. The city lost alot of it's charm because of the black criminals.That always bothered me.
The west side betw 72nd and 79th streets wasn't hit as hard because everyone in my neighborhood went out and walked around. There were just too many white people out for the blacks to try anything.The white men--including me-- took to the intersections and were directing traffic.Quite a few liberal white types changed their tune after the blackout.Alot of white couples with children or planning to have children moved to the suburbs. Can't say I blame them. It's difficult to protect your children when your surrounded by blacks.
The police did a great job during the blackout,considering what they had to deal with.
But you're right-the black criminals hit their own neighborhoods the hardest.Funny thing is, the blacks never complain about that.They never do.
The black leaders are crying about Trayvon,but don't say much about the violence blacks inflict on one another.
Trayvon's mom went to an attorney soon after her son was shot and got his name trademarked-- kinda like she's expecting someone to write a book and/or make a movie from the Sanford incident. It's all about screwing whitey-- the blacks are not that concerned about violence,just twisting everything around as a way to get something from whites. In the meantime,they shot each other down in droves(which is fine with me).
I never heard of a mother getting her son's name trademarked just because he was shot(or any other reason lol).How brokenhearted can she be? Joe

Eric Hale said...

Since everytime a black person acts up, it is blamed on the "legacy of slavery", I propose that anytime a white person behaves poorly we blame it on the "legacy of serfdom". Thousands of years in slavery on the old continent requires understanding and social justice to heal wounds still open from the feudal past.

Been oppressed. Be needin mah reparations, ya heard?

Kylie said...

"I was in New York City when they had "black out" riots in 1977...It wasn't one of those 'We wants justice' riots. It was just a 'We want shit for free' riot."

In the eyes of blacks, there's no difference between the two types of riots. For them, justice really is getting stuff for free--or getting away with stuff scot-free.

For them, principles have nothing to do with abstract concepts like fair play, justice or honesty. Instead, principles are all about they're getting what they think is their fair share of the goodies.

Morality or ethics simply don't apply to the thoughts and actions of most black people.

Anonymous said...

"The Special Prosecutor Corey deserves the same fate as Nifong- a jail cell."

I disagree, at least for now. Nifong pursued a HOAX (a "rape" that never occurred), deliberately hid exculpatory evidence (DNA results), and was ultimately disbarred and disgraced.

At this point, Corey is nothing more than a typical scumbag politician.

Anonymous said...

I guess ABC didn't have a big enough logo to cover Zimmerman's injuries this time.

IT'S TIME said...

Suggestion for the I CAN SEE t-shirt.

On the back of it put:

IT MAKES ME SICK

R Neville said...

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/04/19/nj-man-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-women-after-targeting-couples-at-motels/

Another one of Obama's sons doing what they do best.

Midwestern said...

"But you're right-the black criminals hit their own neighborhoods the hardest.Funny thing is, the blacks never complain about that.They never do."

Everything that black consume comes from YT. Think about it. Blacks rely on whites for their food, low-income-rental-section-8-housing, YT owns the schools, builds the curriculum, created the language, makes the laws, owns the land and the government, everything. I bet they even believe that whites own their black children via welfare. How many blacks would abuse or destroy their own children and families to get back at YT?

Blacks have no sense of ownership, no respect for private property, and no value for life. If you live near a black ghetto, you will notice that the thugs love to trespass and mark their territory on private property. If your stuff is not nailed down, they will take it. They will walk through your lawn, park their car on your street, play their rap loudly, and polish their rims right in front of your house, spray graffiti on your garage and dare you to say anything.

This makes it possible for them to easily destroy EVERYTHING they see when they riot and loot, because they know that ALL OF IT ultimately belongs to the White Man. YT keeps all the good shit for himself and only gives the scraps and morsels to the black man. You would be surprised how many supposedly educated blacks actually believe this nonsense and feel completely justified in their destruction.

Zenster said...

Oh, dear. Oh, dear. What's a poor little over-hyped, illegitimate, worn out and flogged-to-death narrative to do?

One can only speculate as to the thousands upon thousands of eyes that were opened by this abject and farcical media hoax. All that remains is for Eric "my people" Holder to sit on his hands when the riots start this summer. That will the clearest signal imaginable as to how White America is being stretched out on the altar while The Black Hand raises its bloody knife.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (4/20, 2012 8:35 AM): Just imagine the outrage if the races were reversed; its very likely it would be a headline story, of course they would never write for such a scene.

All of which beggars the question of why are you watching this BRA propagandist drivel?

Your time would be far better spent perusing old SBPDL posts.

Is it inciteful considering the "post-trayvon" atmosphere created, and continually stoked by the MSM?

Is it? More like, how can it not be? These media bastards are setting themselves up for a truly great fall. They keep upping the butcher's bill with their Magic Negroes, all the while failing to notice the seething anger accumulating all through White America. So be it.

Let them continue to ratchet up racial tensions just before November. Nothing like a bunch of mugged Liberals heading for the ballot box.

When it finally comes, the MSM's payback will be the stuff of legends.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (4/20, 2012 9:26 AM): "I don't need to go heeled to get the bulge on a dub like you", said Treyvon.

Look at the bright side of things. Not one more single damned ebonics-laden tweet out of this punk thug. That's gotta be a good thing. Think of all the jubilant electrons that won't have to bathe in bleach tonight.

Zenster said...

Anonymous (4/20, 2012 9:32 AM): He was Acting as neighborhood watch in a neighborhood recently plagued by burglaries which means that he was well within his rights to question anyone suspicious wandering around in the neighborhood.

This seems to be a major misconception and one that demands clarification. From all accounts, Zimmerman was going to the store when he spotted Ashtrayvon. This is really important in that were he out on Neighborhood Watch patrol, by agreement, he would not have been carrying a weapon.

All of which is vital in terms of his defense. If Zimmerman had knowingly violated his agreement not to carry while on patrol, it throws into doubt his own account of what happened that night.

Would someone please check up on the veracity of Zimmerman's claim that he was store-bound that evening? It's really important that those of us who support him do not inadvertently compromise his credibility by citing facts not in evidence.

Can you imagine how the liberals' heads would explode if he had to put another orc down in self defense.

Can you imagine the redoubled efforts to crucify him should that unpleasant turn of events come to pass?

lrsd05 said...

Rules For The Gunman

1). Don't carry the gun to make you a man. Carry because you are in fact a man.

2). Always carry your gun regardless of social pressures

3). If you can't physically carry a gun, always have a knife.

4). Whenever you carry a gun, also carry a knife...and some spare ammunition.

5). Carry the gun you can use best regardless of social fashion

6). Make sure you are good with that gun through continual and obsessive practice

7). Don't bluff or threaten with the gun. If you pull it, be certain you are justified and willing to use it.

8). Using it means shooting the other man or men in the chest and/or the face. Yes, it means killing.

9). If you can avoid having to shoot, it is a good thing, but do not second guess yourself once it has begun.

11). To facilitate the former, do not go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things at stupid times.

12). If you are involved in such activities, take a team with you....and rifles.

13). The default should be to mind your own business.

14). The only time minding your own business is superseded by getting involved is if what you see shocks the conscience of humanity and needs to be stopped.

15). The amount of violence you can justify and the number of rules you can break is directly proportionate to the level of evil displayed by your adversary.

16). Never apologize for using violence. Not only is it indicative of weakness but also of a lack of moral standing.

From Warrior Talk

10mm AUTO said...

Cousins!

It is important in this "difficult" time to be sure your writings are safe. If I may, please consider TruCrypt, a computer program that the officials can not break should anyone's hard drive be searched. It is a useful tool for those who might find themselves "outed".

As to Treyvon, it is clear that the Autopsy will show an upward traversing bullet track and contact burns on the hoodie. The toxicology report will be interesting as well. With this evidence, Jorge might well be able to go after the prosecutor (and the Media like AP, NBC, and Yahoo!) for libel, slander and bias.

But the real lesson that was intended to be transmitted to transmitted to Whites is: "Hurt a black with a gun and you will be ruined". BUT THE LESSON DIDN'T WORK!

There is nothing in the comments section in newspapers or online that remotely reflects Whites saying, "Whoa, I selling my guns and buying skittles!". In fact, the hate and rage of the black commentators has only fueled the desire for Whites to arm up, keep their families safe and has been a good lesson on the use of the 2nd Amendment.

Blacks have been reduced to saying (I kid you not!) "If you Whites use a gun, you are just being cowardly!" This from the race that rapes 100 Whites a day and commits over 50% of White murders!

This has been an extreme Liberal FUBAR from start to finish. If anything, it shows the Police and Zimmerman in an extremely sympathetic and professional light. Photos were taken, the evidence evaluated, witnesses were spoken to and the Officers at the station made a decision. Self Defense. An evaluation of the evidence by the entire Country now agrees with that verdict. Who looks vindictive, venal and stupid? The blacks, the race bating media, the black panthers and professional race hustlers and our dear president.

Be happy White cousins, it is a great day in America.

Confusion to the Enemy!

Zenster said...

YIH: Do you think our enemies are concerned about being nice?

I hope everyone has a solid grip on the etymology of the word “nice”.

Ivan Shatov, you in particular should watch this video (if you haven't already). Ann Barnhardt's views regarding the Church Militant should find strong resonance with your own thoughts on that matter.

Zenster said...

Joe: But you're right-the black criminals hit their own neighborhoods the hardest.

NEWSFLASH:

Massive Blackout in New York City
Women and minorities hit hardest

Zenster said...

Kylie: In the eyes of blacks, there's no difference between the two types of riots. For them, justice really is getting stuff for free--or getting away with stuff scot-free.

[golf clap]

Bogolyubski said...

Eric Hale: Since everytime a black person acts up, it is blamed on the "legacy of slavery", I propose that anytime a white person behaves poorly we blame it on the "legacy of serfdom". Thousands of years in slavery on the old continent requires understanding and social justice to heal wounds still open from the feudal past.

Been oppressed. Be needin mah reparations, ya heard?


The invaluable Larry Auster, who has been fighting this fight - sometimes practically alone - for decades, came up with Auster's First Law of Minority/Majority Relations about ten years ago. The bottom line is that blacks are never at fault. Regardless of how abominable a crime is, complete with celebratory sack-dances over their victims, the savage criminal behavior will invariably be explained away as the "legacy of racism" or the "legacy of colonialism." Black race-hustlers and poverty pimps will make use of this reasoning, but - as with all of BRA - it was DWLs who created the explanation in the first place and it's DWL's (and EMACs, who are really just DWLs wearing Reagan masks) who ruthlessly enforce the totalitarian thought control of BRA. Speaking out can cost you not just your job, but your entire career.

BTW, Ms. Corey, the Nifong-inspired prosecutor/legal genius who is conducting the Stalinist political show-trial of Zimmermann, is a Republican who just won another four-term term as Robespierre of North Florida. Way to go, "conservatives". Another typical Repuke - always ready to plunge the knife in your back. At least the Dhimmicrats and Greens are more or less open about their intentions (treason and genocide). Repukes are always wearing a plastic smile, talking about taking some (minimal) action to stem the march towards the gulag - as they work hand-in-glove with the Dhims to betray us at every turn.

Anonymous said...

@ Midwestern:

Your strategy is the correct one. There is not a law in the world against a homeowner standing in his own front yard with a shotgun in his hand. Not one.

So when the Rainbow of Diversity comes sauntering down the street, you pick up your shotgun, stand in your front yard with it, and look at them right in the eyes as they pass. They will yell at you, call you names, jump and dance at you, maybe even throw something at you. You say and do nothing. If they approach you, you shoulder that weapon and tell them to stop. If they keep coming, you rack the slide and tell them to stop once more. And if they still keep coming, you empty the magazine into them, making sure to get them all so that the only side of the story that gets told is yours.

You'll be destroyed for it, of course. "Dat raciss cracka kilt mah Quantravius fo' jes' walkin' down da shtreet!," says the tear-stanted brown face on the TV screen. But that's okay. Smile. Smile as they arrest you. Smile as they drag you into court. Smile as they railroad you and march you off to prison to be gang-raped by monkeymen. You'll be dead by the time the Rainbow of Diversity comes for your wife and kids in revenge, so you won't have to watch them burn your house down and kill your family. They'll be dead and you'll be dead. But you'll be dead and they'll be dead for the right reasons -- and the thugs you eliminated will never bother anyone again.

But the image of the dead thugs in your street won't be -- and neither will the image of your smiling face. And the next day, when the Rainbow of Diversity visits another block, some other white guy will remember the image of those dead thugs, and that famous smile, and it will give him the strength to take up the cross of martyrdom as you did, to pick up his shotgun, and to step out into his own front yard.

Anonymous said...

@Zenster
You are correct in stating that a neighborhood watch patrolman would not be carrying by agreement(with the police dept). The cops dont want neighborhood watch groups to carry.Even The Guardian Angels in NYC don't carry guns as was the agreement between the cops and the angels.
Some newscasters/news reports say Zimmerman was on neighborhood watch patrol,other newscasters/news reports say he wasn't actually on official neighborhood watch the evening he shot Trayvon.
It's difficult to figure out what the real story is.I guess it will come out in the trial.
Whatever happens in the trial, I think white Americans will be slandered. I don't think the trial is going to benefit white Americans very much even if Zimmerman is found innocent. Guilty or innocent,the race hustlers will turn it into an anti-white "narrative" and will continue do every thing they can to overturn Stand Your Ground laws and try to confiscate our guns. Joe

sara said...

Zimmerman had a gun but he still got knocked to the ground with one punch and got his head banged on concrete a few times before he could get to it. If Martin had gotten to it before he did we would have never heard about it. Martin was coming at him and it seems he didn’t go on the defensive. He allowed Martin to dictate the space between them and allowed him to get and STAY close enough to him to get punched in the face. He didn’t automatically reach for his gun. At that point he might not have had to shoot him. Zimmerman didn’t relish shooting that young man. I believe his apology is heartfelt. I don’t know that he had ever been in a fight. I believe he froze and Martin got the better of him for a while.
A 17 year old kid he is suspicious of steps to him, asked him a question and he’s busy answering while the kid is planning how he’s going to hit him then proceeds to knock his ass to the ground. A real live threat is very different from training in a controlled environment. Black thugs have been fighting for years. From the time they’re children. Hitting and being hit live. Zimmerman allowed himself to be set up and knocked down by a teenager.
Learning how to take to take a hit is useful. Experiencing a fist coming at you is useful. Learning how to own your space, maneuver and being conscious of the space between you and a suspicious person is VERY useful. Learning what your response to fear is and how to override a freeze can save your life.
I was also thinking about IQs and how helpful (or not) they are in a fight. An interesting question was explored on a T.V show I enjoyed a few years back…” "if cavemen and astronauts got into a fight, who would win?”

Anonymous said...

"And the next day, when the Rainbow of Diversity visits another block, some other white guy will remember the image of those dead thugs, and that famous smile, and it will give him the strength to take up the cross of martyrdom as you did, to pick up his shotgun, and to step out into his own front yard."

The gold from the pot at the end of the rainbow of diversity was stolen by yoofs and teens and melted down to make teefs a long time ago. All that remains is a graffiti covered-pot filled with chicken bones, skittles wrappers and repo/shutoff notices with names like Da'Shonte and Temeckeia on them.

Anonymous said...

@Zenster
"women and minorities hit hardest"
If the riots start this summer white women will be attacked unmercifully.All White Women:Get a gun and learn how to use it.
If riots start,random black street criminals will be doing damage to their own neighborhoods(I don't give a sh*t about that),but the black panthers will be going into white neighborhoods to kill.The blacks are alot more organized and militarized since the 60's.
If riots start this summer, the riots are going to be more destrutive than 50 years ago. I have no doubt about that. Joe

Anonymous said...

"Can you imagine the redoubled efforts to crucify him should that unpleasant turn of events come to pass?"

I can. The sweet taste of the tears on the faces of the black animals ravaging our cities and their useful white idiots would go a long way toward quenching my thirst for Zimmerman's freedom.

If someone would make a compilation video of all of these welfare queens (always on their porch in the middle of the day de-contributing to society as usual) crying over their "honnah stoodinz", I'd watch it every morning before work just to start the day on a positive. Nobody deserves pain and heartache like these inconsiderate, lazy baby factories who have populated our cities with violent predators and left them to their own devices. It never fails, either, that I think "another bat got his wings". I know... That's some cruel, dirty, racist shit, but so are black people.

Ivan Shatov said...

Zenster, I will watch Ann's video this evening. I may have already seen it since I do follow her blog intermittently. And yes, what she says does resonate with me.

Muscular, masculine, no apologies, no whining, esto vir Christianity is precisely what is needed. A Christianity that acknowledges our debt to our ancestors and our responsibilities to our posterity. One that makes no apologies, I repeat, NO APOLOGIES, for our European past. If, I repeat IF, mistakes were made - TOUGH!! Get over it. No apologies.

Until and unless Christians come to appreciate that the diversity of races, languages and nations is God's ordained will and to trifle with his design is sinful we will not survive as a race and with us goes Christian (European) civilization.

Christianity has been debased and degraded by the modernist lust for divinization of man and utopian nihilism.

What you and other take for Christianity is simply warmed over liberalism and utterly at odds with the Christianity of old Europe.

D J said...

Eric Hale: "Since everytime a black person acts up, it is blamed on the "legacy of slavery", I propose that anytime a white person behaves poorly we blame it on the "legacy of serfdom". Thousands of years in slavery on the old continent requires understanding and social justice to heal wounds still open from the feudal past."

Now, there is the futile (spelling intentional) present. The serfdom is still there. We are serfs in that money is extracted from us at the threat of the badge and gun.

There you are in the grocery store checking out with your hamburger and lesser cuts, and your store-brand staples. The next aisle over, you see the lobster, the steaks, the chops, the name brands, hitting the conveyor belt. Smiling back at you from that box of sugar-laden cereal is a black face.

You roll your groceries out to the car you hope runs through the winter without needing anything major. Two spaces up is a Navigator with 22" spinners. Up walks the person from that next aisle over. She is yammering on her subsidized cell-phone.

Serfdom was, serfdom is. The masters have changed.

So CAL Snowman said...

Zenster said: "
Is it? More like, how can it not be? These media bastards are setting themselves up for a truly great fall. They keep upping the butcher's bill with their Magic Negroes, all the while failing to notice the seething anger accumulating all through White America. So be it."

Oh the "Media" knows EXACTLY what they are doing alright, make no mistake about it. They KNOW they are stoking the flames of a never before seen race war in america. THEY KNOW the White man is starting to seethe with rage and anger. The talking heads are just that, superficial mouthpieces that read from a script. They have NO IDEA what they are saying or reading, they just read it. Check out this 59 second video of Ex - CIA agent Michael Scheuer discussing the Libya situation with these media bimbos from CNN.

You're Just Carrying the Water For Mr. Obama

The Media is the MOST POWERFUL and INSIDIOUS force in the US today. EVERYTHING the MSM does is carefully scripted and controlled.

Mr. Rational said...

All that remains is for Eric "my people" Holder to sit on his hands when the riots start this summer.

The only thing I'm missing for this is a large stash of 12 ga #4 buck, and nighttime gunsights and/or IR lasers and IR-sensitive goggles.

If you look around, night-sight gear is surprisingly affordable.  I doubt anything will happen in my Whitopia, but I am considering it if only to be able to get it to the nearest site of active hostilities in time to do some good.

You roll your groceries out to the car you hope runs through the winter without needing anything major. Two spaces up is a Navigator with 22" spinners. Up walks the person from that next aisle over.

Look at the bright side:  if the riots happen and YT's righteous anger hits back twice as hard, there'll be a lot of nice wheels going cheap (once you take the ni***r bling off them).  There'll also be a whole lot of EBT money that Big Agriculture is counting on coming back to them, and they'll have to spend it on the survivors.

MuayTyson said...

I honestly hope Zimmerman is the first Billionair from lawsuits. Every Liberal outlet that slandered him and manipulated information needs to be named in said suite. He also needs to name each individual newscaster and journalist who wrote and spread lies about him.

nameispointless said...

@R Neville:
Another one of Obama's sons doing what they do best.

This is really distressing, RN, and all too frequent.
Black serial sexual crimes/rapes in this "Escape From New York" BRA world are usually under-reported, or not reported at all.
Thus, via demographic reportage, the mythology that whites dominate that particular field of criminality is perpetuated.
A few months ago, a 14 yr old black kid robbed a CVS drug store, stole a bicycle, then apparently adrenergically unsated, continued on to randomly rape two women on the streets of Oakland.
The OPD released a bulletin warning women to be aware: A 5'8" 14 year old rapist was at large. That's it. No other descriptive information.
Only after a huge outcry from the public re: the dearth of intel, a name, race, face was published.
The mother [of course, no father exists], surrendered him to the OPD. Now, she is suing the city for outing him, and accusing her "baby," who would "never do such things." Never mind that he has been eye-witness ID'd by the rape victims and his face is on CCTV at the CVS drug store.
She'll probably win. Oakland has a pimp attorney who takes these cases, and almost always wins.
I have searched the Oakland CJ sites for a bookend on the case, there is none. He is probably out on the streets again.

Zenster said...

Ivan Shatov: Zenster, I will watch Ann's video this evening. I may have already seen it since I do follow her blog intermittently. And yes, what she says does resonate with me.

Thank you, Ivan Shatov. Someday I hope you might come to understand my deep and abiding (if not hard-learned) appreciation for the Church Militant's dedication to preserving White European culture. Without it, Charles "The Hammer" Martel might not have turned back the Islamic horde at Poitiers, France. Nor might have mercenary Polish general, Jan Sobieski, have withstood the siege and final challenge at the Gates of Vienna in 1683 on September 11th,. Yes, that September 11th. Do not for one minute think that Osama bin Laden chose such a fateful date at random.

Just as Blacks are unimaginably vicious so are a number of our other enemies. Eventually, we will learn to repay such bloody coin in kind. With interest, but no more than that, if we are smart enough.

Zenster said...

nameispointless, I know that it is beyond painful for you to update SBPDL about Oaktown but would you please consider being this forum's boots-on-the-ground reporter for that area? I ask only in my own personal capacity but Oakville is on the edge of being Detroited and everyone here needs a maximum of information flow from that primate habitat.

Yea or Nay, thank you for the updates.

Test Blog said...

I think most people who frequent here are aware that the prime motivation between the grandstanding for an "arrest" was for the big potential financial payoff in it for Crump, Rev Al, even the "grieving Mom" who ran to trademark Trayvon's name.

A big part of the arrest charge hinges on the alleged phone call between "DeeDee" and Trayvon that was supposed to have taken place the night he was shot. Even though she allegedly heard the confrontation, she never called 911 or tried to find out what happened to Trayvon. She also refused to cooperate with police.

But Crump used her in his media circus and stated she was unavailable b/c she was grief stricken. Corey apparently spoke to her, but not to any of the eyewitnesses who were there and confirmed Zimmerman's story.

Some people aren't buying Crump's DeeDee tale and have been doing the yeomans work, along with Wagist, to connect the dots.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/#more-37932

Liberty said...

This is all about a financial payoff for Crump, the mother, etc.
A big part of Crump's media manipulation and the charge sheet was predicated on the testimony of "DeeDee" who was supposedly on the phone with Trayvon as he was being "followed" by Zimmerman.

Some people aren't buying Crumps story and are doing their homework on DeeDee and her whereabouts during key moments of this saga

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/#more-37932

Big Bear said...

I can only shake my head. Again and again. I do not feel I live in America any more. In a perverted sort of way, I hope it goes down in the hope that we can establish a new nation out here, between the Continental Divide and the Pacific Crest (Google it)...an inland water basin.

Thank you, USAF, for billeting my dad out here in the hinterlands. I don't know whether to thank my lucky stars or throw up.

Anonymous said...

It's going to be a wild summer. My biggest worry is that here in my whitopia, the trash pickup limits us to one large item per week. If the riots come here, it's going to be utterly back breaking work dragging all of the dead orc carcasses around and dividing them up amongst all of the neighbors' trash so we don't have to pay a penalty. I certainly don't want to plant them around here for fear that they'll grow back or poison the food in my garden.

Full Auto said...

Very well said Ivan. Very insightful. I believe you're on to something my man.

nameispointless said...

@Zenster:

I know that it is beyond painful for you to update SBPDL about Oaktown but would you please consider being this forum's boots-on-the-ground reporter for that area?

Zenster, will do; it is in no way too painful. I could use a productive release mechanism for the Vesuvial rage and frustration felt in the face of this insanity.
You are spot-on in your assessment of O/L's descent into Detroit-ization.
Thanks to inept city leadership that has seemingly been mentored by the Detroit school of liberal mismanagement/graft, a black criminal conviction is difficult, the schools are running with a 50% dropout rate, entire blocks are decimated. Thank goodness for 'the hills' residents, as they are known. Therein, abides the tax base.
Bringing you up to speed in the endless stream of turf war shoot-outs, drive-bys, and random murders, [too many not resolved thanks to the "no-snitch, I din see nutin," policy in the projects and mean streets of this town]:
just this past Wednesday:
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/opd-identify-man-who-was-fatally-shot-while-pushin/nMdNL/

uziman said...

10mm AUTO @ 4/20 12:15

I have copied your entire post into a word doc so I can paste it at will whenever I have to into comment sections about relevant stories. Hope you don't mind...

And as well, I've started finishing most of my posts, wherever I may be posting, with "SBPDL... google it and learn."

uziman said...

D J @ 2:44

You forgot to add...

Probably parked in a handicapped spot

Zenster said...

nameispointless: Thank goodness for 'the hills' residents, as they are known. Therein, abides the tax base.

Just like how California covers the welfare bills for several other rustbelt states, so does Montclair pay for much of Oaktown's EBT cards.

And, please, keep the updates coming from Jerry "moonbeam" Brown's mayoral legacy.

Anonymous said...

Just a quick observation-

I once had a discussion with a co-worker about this subject,and it was started because of some long forgotten incident where a guy in Texas shot some idiot who was engaged in-literally-stealing chickens.

The man holding down the other end of the conversation regarded the law that allowed the use of lethal force to stop what turned out to be a property crime as lunatic. I hold otherwise,and did my best to explain that-in my view-the law that allows for this was NOT passed in order to give every property owner in the state a hunting license to shoot anyone who crossed his or her property line.

The Stand Your Ground laws have a very,very important place in western jurisprudence. The SYG laws-which to my way of thinking includes the various statutes allowing individuals to shoot in defense of their property,while on their property-place the burden of proof on the individual who is already demonstrably behaving badly.

To give a quick example-I wake up at midnight,because something is making noise in the workshed out back. I grab a shotgun and go take a look,and what do I see but a couple of guys helping themselves to stuff in the shed!

And then one of these guys notices me,grabs something out of his pocket,waves it in my direction and I shoot him on the spot.

When the cops get there,if I'm in a stand-your-ground state,then it really isn't up to me to explain why this total stranger is laying on his stomach with an ass full of birdshot.

In a stand your ground state,it's up to the guy with an ass full of birdshot to explain just why it was that HE was going discount shopping in your tool shed in the small hours of the morning.

He is the one who was already on property that didn't belong to him. You're the one that owns the property he was on without your knowledge or permission,and the only questions you should have to answer should involve your ownership and your perfect and absolute right to be where you are,when you're there.

The stand your ground laws are a very simple extension of this concept. If you have a right to be where you are,you have no duty to back up in the face of an assailant. Lay on,MacDuff,and let the chips fall where they may. If you are breaking no law,you have no obligation to retreat.

And this is something that seems to have been deliberately overlooked by most of the mainstream reporting:

If Trayvon Martin had a right to be where he was,then Zimmerman had just as much right to be there.

Zenster said...

Ivan Shatov: What you and other take for Christianity is simply warmed over liberalism and utterly at odds with the Christianity of old Europe.

Puhlease, do not lump me in with the flaccid morons who think that Christianity is supposed to cheerfully draw the viper to its breast. That unmitigated universalist crap has no place in my perception of Christendom.

I realize and understand how so many modern Christians have deluded themselves into believing that the intolerable must be tolerated and the merciless must be shown unlimited mercy but that is just so much "blue pill" nonsense.

My only hope is that Christians can overcome their self-importance for long just enough to find common cause with all other non-Islamic faiths in order to form an alliance that will starve out the Muslim world for once and all time. Time's a'wasting and the sooner that onerous chore is done with, the more likely it is that the Church Militant will rediscover its long lost scrotal endowment and set about being something which Christ might be truly proud of.

PS: Thank you for taking time out to view Barnhardt's video. If you have not already seen her delightful rant, I am positive that you will get a total kick-in-the-pants out of it.

Zenster said...

Ivan Shatov: Christianity has been debased and degraded by the modernist lust for divinization of man and utopian nihilism.

Permit me to throw this, admittedly not-completely-thought-out, gasoline onto the fire.

For the nonce, let's please try to separate the "divinization of man" from its camp follower of a more conspicuous and toxic nature, that "utopian nihilism". What is so wrong with the "divinization of man" if one respectfully approaches that concept from the notion that man is made in God's image?

If possible, try for the moment to dispense with the abomination of "original sin". Mankind is perfectible, but only on a voluntary basis. This is where the vicious evil of social engineering so often gets its foot in the door; by claiming to be a way, if not the way, of perfecting mankind.

Do you, as a (thankfully) unrepentant Christian, dispute that an entirely Christian world would not approach perfection? Face the question squarely. Ergo, the "divinization of man" in God's image mightn't be such a terrible thing.

Now, imagine for a moment the "divinization of man", complete with his wholly undeserved onus of "original sin" (yes, those are sneer quotes). Can it not be more clear that elevating such a thoroughly flawed being is a fool's errand at best? Yet, this is what Liberals, inadvertently or not, seem to do.

They seek to divinize a mankind that is simultaneously deemed in dire need of uplift. One may as well intentionally construct an idol with feet of clay (not that such a thing hasn't ever happened before) [chortle].

My point is that the only man worth divinizing is one of truly wholesome character and righteous conduct. As in the man, per your own Christian doctrine, who ostensibly is "made in God's image". (Rightfully assuming that there isn't a boatload of lint on the lens of that divine imaging process.) Hoisting aloft the flawed byproduct of "original sin" and its modern counterpart, a groveling worship of the "noble savage", is what has bought us this "utopian nihilism", part and parcel.

Might we find some small measure of agreement in this?

Zenster said...

Anonymous (4/21, 2012 8:25 AM): The man holding down the other end of the conversation regarded the law that allowed the use of lethal force to stop what turned out to be a property crime as lunatic.

Just to clear things up a bit; property theft is murder by degrees. Legitimate ownership of property infers that, somewhere down the line, the individual in question spent some precious personal time out of their life working to obtain said property.

Theft of that property is theft of that portion of life. It is stealing your blood, sweat and tears. Something no one has any right to do.

And this is something that seems to have been deliberately overlooked by most of the mainstream reporting:

With all due respect; well, duh!

The MSM is so thoroughly dyed-in-the-wool Communist that forcible redistribution of wealth (i.e., theft), is an article of faith.

To conclude, I can only presume that we are in violent, raucous agreement.

Mr. Rational said...

My only hope is that Christians can overcome their self-importance for long just enough to find common cause with all other non-Islamic faiths in order to form an alliance that will starve out the Muslim world for once and all time.

These days, atheists are doing a better job of asserting their right to exist than Christians are.  They're doing their training, fighting an uphill battle for recognition.  While the membership is divided into the Islamophilic crypto-Marxists and the Islamonauseous Rationalists (guess where I fall on that spectrum?), I don't think the former are going to maintain their conviction in the face of mounting evidence.

Also, when TSHTF it's almost entirely the latter who'll have arsenals for their self-defense and practice in using them.  Those who fall prey to TNB before the eventual Islamic confrontation are likely to question a lot of their premises, if they retain the ability to question.

Zenster said...

Mr. Rational: These days, atheists are doing a better job of asserting their right to exist than Christians are.

Which speaks volumes about the process of auto-emasculation that modern Christianity has embarked upon.

Jay in DC said...

There is something odd happening on this site that I cannot quite understand, bear with me...

First off, I posted on another thread about nigger, the n-word, whatever and my hesitation to soften language. Zenster made an amazing argument for both sides. But at the end of the day, reading all the follow-up comments, I agree with the following. Do not use it. Period. In a world where even the most innocent comment is perceived as -A Racist Agenda(tm)- there is no good reason for that word. As one commenter said, we all recognize TNB for what it is, but let us not become Stormfront, VNN, or some other absurdly fringe place living in a world that will never come to be. For this reason, I support suppression of this word, for now...

Secondly, and this is mostly for comedic value. I'd like to show you a "White Hispanic". I have no beef with Zimmerman at all, I just cannot help but laugh at MSM. Follow this link and look at the photo at the head of the page...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/20/justice/florida-zimmerman-details/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

White indeed....

Lastly, I get the impression that many people here are secretly hoping for race riots this summer. I see much talk of a "long hot summer" blah blah... whatever. Do we want this? First off, you cannot win. Under the current system even if you defend, you are still the perp. Zimmy is case in point. Secondly, I have a feeling that many people stoking these fires live in ahh, how do I say? "Secluded places."
I live -in- DC. Hence my interaction in this event will be 100%, hyper-saturated, and irrevocable. Personally, I do not wish for this outcome because I don't think it would end well for me, from a legal perspective. You see what one act of indiscretion can produce in FL which is a FAR more conservative state. In Chocolate City, I have no chance. That is the deal. Sorry, just my .02...

Anonymous said...

Paul is 10 feet tall and weights 400 Pounds. Keep up the good work.

Zenster said...

Jay in DC: First off, I posted on another thread about nigger, the n-word, whatever and my hesitation to soften language.

And you made one helluva good case.

Zenster made an amazing argument for both sides.

Kill me now!

But at the end of the day, reading all the follow-up comments, I agree with the following. Do not use it. Period.

We are in total agreement. I wish like all hell we could live in a world where Blacks who love to call themselves "niggers" could be called that with equal ease.

Such is not the case.

SBPDL needs to go mainstream much more than we need the gratifying but counterproductive opportunity to use such "colorful" language.

Good onya, mate.

Anonymous said...

An observation. I saw a photograph of the innocent child (Treyvon Martin) & he had a gold grill in his mouth. Ironic he would have money for a gold grill for his yap at 17 years of age. I have not read anywhere that he had a job, so HE could not have paid for it out of legitimately earned money.

I did read Treyvon was suspended from school a number of times. Once for having in his possession a bag of B&E tools and stolen women’s jewelry. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to put that one together now does it. I guess my point in all of this is that, at just 17 years of age, this was NOT an innocent child but a thief that has already done some pretty big scores for his age & was well on his way to a lengthy stay at club Fed.

The last time Treyvon was suspended from school was the day he died & his parents have asked to have those school records stating why he was suspended to be hushed & sealed. Maybe he had a violent outburst toward one of his teachers? I hope it comes out in trial.

My money is he became violent toward a teacher, to warrant a 10 day suspension it had to be serious.

Discard said...

The Sixth amendment of the Constitution guarantees the right of the accused to "...have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor". Every last one of Treyvon's school records, tweets, whatever, that could have any bearing on the defense can be demanded by Zimmerman's lawyer. If school principal refuses to turn over the disciplinary records, he can rot in jail until he dies. Given the efforts of the media mob to mislead the jury pool, anything that shows Treyvon to be a thug-in-training rather than an innocent young boy is likely relevant.

Anonymous said...

I stumbled on to this website a few minutes ago I chuckle as the tomfoolery/ Oddly I see a upset whites sitting on this website wasting their time. If you really hate blacks that much then stop talking about them. You're wasting time and energy. Secondly,why aren't you focused on your self obsessed children that have more problems then then the black community itself. The problems that white children have trumps those of blacks trust me I would know. On the topic of Zimmerman, I just want you to contemplate the idea of your child being gunned down in South Florida...Oh right it might not happen because your white. But, Zimmerman thought that kid was either white or Hispanic so all of you with Portuguese and Spanish ancestry would have been dead as well. Furthermore why did he kill him why shoot for the head? Oh yeah and anyone who isn't white I have something for you =) "Jews are called white-niggers; Arabs, sandniggers; or Japanese, yellow-niggers." SO "true" white people hate you too... just not always as much. Thanks for reading.

Mr. Rational said...

Hey, more fresh meat!  Could this be Buffalo Charlie posting anon?  Do you think I care?

If you really hate blacks that much then stop talking about them. You're wasting time and energy.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.  If you hate White people so much, stop talking about us.  Stop blaming us for your dysfunctions and misfortunes.  And above all, stop robbing our people, raping our women and taking our money.

The problems that white children have trumps those of blacks trust me I would know.

Spend a little time on WorldStarHipHop.com and that'll change right away.

On the topic of Zimmerman, I just want you to contemplate the idea of your child being gunned down in South Florida...

I know that the idea of "right and wrong" is really hard for you, but when I contemplate the idea of my child attacking someone for asking him what he was doing in a gated community where he wasn't resident I think "If he did that he would deserve to get shot, and if I raised him that badly it would be my fault and not the shooter's."

But we White people know that Black people don't do "right and wrong", you only do "my tribe versus everyone else".

Furthermore why did he kill him why shoot for the head?

He didn't.  Trayvon Martin was shot in the chest.  You can't even get your facts right.

And while you're at it, take your own advice.  Stop talking about us, stop talking to us, get off this blog.  But if you want a one-way ticket to Liberia, just ask.  If you're willing to give up US citizenship and leave, we'll take up a collection for you.

Anonymous said...

An observation. I saw a photograph of the innocent child (Treyvon Martin) & he had a gold grill in his mouth. Ironic he would have money for a gold grill for his yap at 17 years of age. I have not read anywhere that he had a job, so HE could not have paid for it out of legitimately earned money.

I did read Treyvon was suspended from school a number of times. Once for having in his possession a bag of B&E tools and stolen women’s jewelry. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to put that one together now does it. I guess my point in all of this is that, at just 17 years of age, this was NOT an innocent child but a thief that has already done some pretty big scores for his age & was well on his way to a lengthy stay at club Fed.

The last time Treyvon was suspended from school was the day he died & his parents have asked to have those school records stating why he was suspended to be hushed & sealed. Maybe he had a violent outburst toward one of his teachers? I hope it comes out in trial.

My money is he became violent toward a teacher, to warrant a 10 day suspension it had to be serious.

Contrast Anon 7:49 with Desir,er, Anon 5:23

I stumbled on to this website a few minutes ago I chuckle as the tomfoolery/ Oddly I see a upset whites sitting on this website wasting their time. If you really hate blacks that much then stop talking about them. You're wasting time and energy. Secondly,why aren't you focused on your self obsessed children that have more problems then then the black community itself. The problems that white children have trumps those of blacks trust me I would know. On the topic of Zimmerman, I just want you to contemplate the idea of your child being gunned down in South Florida...Oh right it might not happen because your white. But, Zimmerman thought that kid was either white or Hispanic so all of you with Portuguese and Spanish ancestry would have been dead as well. Furthermore why did he kill him why shoot for the head? Oh yeah and anyone who isn't white I have something for you =) "Jews are called white-niggers; Arabs, sandniggers; or Japanese, yellow-niggers." SO "true" white people hate you too... just not always as much. Thanks for reading

After all you cannot spell SkittlMDMAs or IcMDMAd TMDMAa withoutusing MDMA can you?